Instant Reaction: The Jimmy G Trade

NEPD Staff Writer: Mike Gerken

Here I thought the highlight of my night was watching my five year old’s first soccer practice ever. Then my phone pinged and my jaw hit the floor. I think I probably looked very similar to those kids out on the field- wondering aimlessly around and struggling to keep my focus.

My initial reaction was “why now, we could have gotten so much more last April? And what do we do about the backup job now? ”  It seemed the team made it pretty clear to the other teams in the league that Jimmy G was almost untouchable, yet all it took was a single pick, and just a second rounder to boot.

What changed? Were all the rumors about multiple 1st round picks being turned down just that, rumors? As fans of the Patriots, we have come to think of this organization as one step ahead of everyone else, especially when it comes to trades. Did the Patriots play a game of chicken with the league and lost this time? Only time will tell, but I never would have guessed this team would go from having three QB’s on their roster to one during the season.

Obviously, with a trade like this, the Patriots are all in that Brady will indeed be playing at least 2 more years and probably think more is a real possibility. This also could be just the first domino to fall in what could be a very active 24 hours before the trade deadline. Another aspect of this trade is that it allows the team to use the franchise tag on Malcolm Butler next off season if they so choose.

I really liked Jimmy G and I hope he has success in San Francisco. Not this year of course, but after this season, I would like to see him play well. He seems like a quality person and a talented football player.

Do I like this trade? My first reaction is no. It is not so much losing the player, because I just didn’t see the timing lining up for Jimmy to be the starter here, and this trade proves that. However, I think the return is light and I think the team overplayed this one a bit and lost out on a better deal.

What are all your thoughts?

 

128 Responses to “Instant Reaction: The Jimmy G Trade”

  1. Russell says:

    I look for the Patriots to extend RB Burkheads Contract, a very solid player.
    I also think OT Solder is extend (IF) the deal is friendly , BUT not at $10 mil. yr.
    Likely Slater to IR hamstring again, and retire.
    OT Waddle looked very good, I thought he played better than Fleming. When I first saw Waddle he played ROT for Detroit , he has improved !!
    Brady took a lot of snaps under center which seem to help the OL.

  2. JH says:

    Early mock draft; I’m implying that we trade our first rounder for a mid-second and mid-third.

    2nd: SS Kyzir White, West Virginia – We all know BB drafts a year early regarding free agency and Patrick Chung will be a 30+ year old free agent after next season. McCourty is also getting up there in age. White is athletic and a physical tackler at 6’2″, 220, but is also an elite slot corner.

    (trade) 2nd: QB Ryan Finley, N.C. State – Good value if still on the board here.

    2nd: LB Darius Leonard, South Carolina State – Modern NFL linebacker. Slightly undersized at 6’3″ 230 but has proven he can be very effective at that size because of how athletic he is. He had 19 total tackles vs Clemson last year and won the 2016 MEAC Defensive Player of the Year award with 124 total tackles. I think he could easily rise this high in the draft.

    (trade) 3rd: DE Duke Ejiofor, Wake Forest – With Derek Rivers returning next year, I hope we sign someone like Ziggy Ansah and then draft a DE on Day 2. Ejiofor is similar to Trey Flowers in that he wasn’t the most athletic coming out of college but could win with power and was still very effective.

    3rd: CB Brandon Facyson, Virginia Tech – Tall corner, excellent tackler, decent athleticism. The Pats have 2 corners hitting free agency after this year and two more after next year, so may be wise to invest in one through the draft.

    4th: RB Jarvion Franklin, Western Michigan – Power runner, appears to be able to catch out of the backfield as well. Would replace Rex Burkhead.

    With our 6th and 7th round picks the Pats could look to add additional depth to the O-line and D-line.

    A player I came across recently was DE Marcus Davenport out of UTSA. He’s 6’7″ 255 and is very athletic. I’m not too good at scouting DE’s so I’m not sure if he should be considered a freak or just raw. Has anyone else heard of this guy?

    • steve earle says:

      Wouldn’t be surprised at all if we trade down both our 1st and the SF 2nd for more picks it’s kind of in Bill’s genes I think. Having said that accounting for those possibility’s makes it really hard to create a mock that has even a remote possibility of even coming close. One thing I believe we should be looking for is a LT. No reflection on Garcia but he hasn’t taken the field sense early in camp and we still have no idea about why so his status is in question. So unless we extend Solder for a couple more years I’m uncomfortable with the current status. Now I like the guys you have only Ejiofor will not make it close to the 3rd rd he is just to good of a rusher and every team in the NFL wants edge rushers. I like CB Facyon, he was on my board last year but didn’t come out. Now why in the world do you want to replace Burkhead? He can be extended for reasonable money and fits the system like a glove. Waiting until the 6th/7th rds to look at the D-line and O-line is just very shortsighted seems to me. We already cant get any pressure up inside and picks down there arn’t likely to effect that for the better.

      • JH says:

        If we don’t resign Solder then that definitely becomes a need. However, the Pats rarely draft to fill an immediate need. I think if Solder leaves we’d be better off signing someone in free agency to fill a starting role as opposed to a rookie, and then we’d still have a promising young tackle in Garcia to continue to develop. I’m hoping we resign Solder and one of Waddle/Fleming, though, and when you add in Cannon and Garcia that would give us four tackles to work with, which to me would make the position not a need. Regardless, its all dependent on what happens in free agency. Most of these picks are based on where they’re projected to go right now, so if you think Ejiofor will be gone by the 3rd round then I’ll take your word for it. I just think we should look at a DE on day 2. At DT we already have 3 young players in Brown, Valentine, and Butler, with Wise playing inside occasionally and Guy on a long term contract. Branch is the only old guy at that position, and with 3 young players I don’t think we need to spend a high pick on a fourth. If anything we could add a quality DT through free agency and as I suggested maybe a flier in the late rounds.

      • JH says:

        I actually love Rex Burkhead in NE, but Gillislee has been underperforming and that leaves us without a true power back. Gillislee is a healthy scratch for tonights game, so maybe Burkhead can prove he can be our power back. If one of Burkhead or Gillislee can prove they can be our go-to power back, then I don’t think we need to invest in one in the draft. If neither of them does, then I think we should let one of them go after this year and draft one as it would be cheaper and give us a potential long-term solution.

        • GM-in-Training says:

          I’m worried about the power running game too. When the Pats get back from Mexico City, they’re likely to start seeing sloppier conditions the rest of the season. Maybe the Pats are just resting Gillislee because they don’t really need a power game against the Broncos.

        • steve earle says:

          You know JH your giving me the same arguments for one position that I gave you for another.
          1) Bill drafts a year ahead for: a Saf or a RB because they are cheaper. Can say the very same for OLT
          2) That we go the FA route for O-line. I can say the same thing for power back or Saf.
          3) Yes we have 3 young DT’s but no Wolfolk/ Ted Washington dominate player up front.

          Power back (like Blount) even in cold is still dependent on the o-line getting push and opening holes. If Gillislee isn’t the answer there is the option of trading for, a Free agent, or drafting one. Actually I’m pretty happy with our RB’s right now and don’t see Gill as the problem. But thing is we are talking about drafting in 2018 and I see the longer range needs to be Def front and O-line. Right now db has some depth, that can change if Butler moves on, I’ll deal with that if it happens, RB’s are good given we are a pass first team, even in bad weather unless you are a new fan TB has little problems with that. If he doesn’t I don’t and our backs out of the backfield more then make up for the lack of a true power back IMO. If BB grabs one late in the draft fine I just think it’s a low priority.

        • JH says:

          I’m not saying we draft those positions just cause it would be cheaper, Steve. That is a plus but it’s mainly because it gives us a long term solution. I’ll try to break my thinking down for you position by position.

          RB – We have good depth, but not much of a power game. Not a HUGE need, but could maybe use a Day 3 pick on a power back (as I suggested). This would give us a situational power back for next year, but a potential workhorse back for years to come. If we get one through free agency, then it’s likely we would only be able to either get a situational power back with no potential to be a workhorse, or get a potential workhorse that would cost more money. With the draft, you get an immediate power back, a potential workhorse, and cheap depth. Not likely we can accomplish this through free agency. I’m very aware we can survive without one, but it opens up our offense even more when we have one we can trust. Gillislee could also surprise us all and start to play better, and in that situation we wouldn’t even need to worry about it. It all depends.

          OL- We look pretty solid on the interior, but at OT it depends on free agency and how much the Pats like Garcia. Assuming they resign Solder and Waddle, and they think Garcia can be our LT of the future, then we should be just fine. If they aren’t sure about Garcia, then go ahead and draft one. If they don’t resign Solder, then get a proven veteran to replace him in free agency, not a rookie. It all depends.

          DT – I consider this a big need of ours. That doesn’t mean we need to draft one high. As I said we have very good, young depth. I don’t think we need another young guy. I say we get a really good DT in free agency that can contribute right away, and then who knows how good the 3 young guys will become. Add in Guy and (occasionally) Wise, and that’s 6 very capable DT’s.

          SS – Safety is NOT an immediate need. So, we definitely shouldn’t get one in free agency with Harmon, McCourty, and Chung under contract. However, with Chung a free agent next year and getting old, I say get one in the draft high who can replace Chung and be a future starter. Kyzir White can play some linebacker too, so he would be a very valuable pick. In this situation, we added good depth but for cheap, AND solved our problem with Chung’s age/contract by getting a future starter. Not likely we can accomplish this through free agency.

    • Russell says:

      Good break down JH . I’m not sure about a SS early but always a chance. I tend to think a DL like Maurice Hurst.
      I’m watching SS Quin Blanding, 6’1″ 215 lbs. 4.58 40 yd.
      Watched OL Braden Smith play this week. VERY impressed with him.
      Also watched OT Chikwuma Okorafor, 6’6″ 330 lbs. Western Michigan, VERY good LOT.
      Was not as impressed with Martinas Rankin.
      I like WR Allen Lazard, but see him more as a TE at 6’4″ 225 lbs. 4.58 40 yd.

      • steve earle says:

        Quin Banding looked good on highlights , already high on Bradon Smith OG, but didn’t see big difference between Okorafor and Rankin. Both have some trouble with speed rush outside, not unusual, Both strong vs bull rush and can get to 2nd level both have good footwork and can drive block. All in all I’d rather Connor Williams then either, but hay!

  3. JH says:

    What do you guys think about Ryan Finley as a potential draft pick for us next year? I think he’d be a great fit in NE. I watched the N.C. State vs. Clemson game and he was very impressive. He has a quick release, runs a pro-style offense, has good pocket presence, and is surprisingly mobile as an added bonus. He’s only thrown three INT’s this year compared to 15 TD’s and 65+ completion percentage. Appears to have a strong arm and above average accuracy too. The only worry I have with him is that he’ll go much earlier than when we’ll be picking by the time the draft comes around, but as of right now he’s probably a high second rounder. Anyone have any thoughts on this guy?

    • Russell says:

      QB Finley has very good foot work, which is key for a QB to be efficient & accurate, which he is. When watching QB tape watch only the guys feet, solid base, step into the throw, feet pointed in the right direction of the throw.
      No bailing out, back foot throws, feet pointed away from throw.
      When watching the ball in flight nice level ball, No point of the ball down, deep passes nice arc, not to strait.
      Finley meets the eye test, good size (If accurate) 6’3″ 210 lbs. Only a junior so experience level a question. Throws every accurate short to mid range balls. Arm strength a question.
      I like Finley IF he enters the draft. I’m a little higher on Jeremiah Brisco , Sam Houston state, a smaller program.

      • JH says:

        I was unsure about Finley’s arm strength when I initially watched him as well, but I’ve seen him throw some darts in the intermediate game and some 40 to 50 yard passes without much effort. He may never be known to have a rocket arm, but it seems like he has more than enough arm strength to the point where it won’t ever be a problem for him.

    • steve earle says:

      I’ve been saying I’m a poor judge of QBs so not going to address ability’s. I’m wondering if a QB is high on BB’s list at this point? My perspective is that Bill kept Jimmy G around to be sure Brady was still going to be Brady and has been convinced he will. So giving Hoyer a 3 year deal says to me he is content for the next couple years with Brady/Hoyer. He very well could draft a QB mid or late rounds but early? You tell me.

      • GM-in-Training says:

        If all goes as expected this season, I think BB takes a QB in 3-4 next year, with traits to develop.

        I think that comports with his risk management philosophy.

      • Russell says:

        It takes time to develop a QB, so I think BB drafts a QB, not to early.

      • macspak says:

        I think it depends. I could see taking one as early as the first 2nd round pick if somebody they really like falls like JG did a few years ago in that draft. I could see the same with their own 2nd rounder or 3rd or 4th. It’s about perceived value and how much they like and project a particular player. Unlike JG I think we can safely say this draft’s QB truly is expected to be the heir apparent. To me that means they will not hesitate to pull the trigger.

        • JH says:

          I agree that the Pats will probably pick a quarterback based on which one represents the best value to them when they’re on the clock, and I do believe Finley would be worth a second rounder (whether that be early or late) if he comes out. I think he ultimately will come out because this is his 5th year of college and he’s got two full seasons of play under his belt. Like I said yesterday, though, he may rise too high in the draft for us. If the Pats are looking for a mid-round QB, I think Russell’s guy Briscoe or Logan Woodside of Toledo would be good picks. Woodside is very accurate and as of right now has a 20-2 TD-INT ratio with a shade under 65 completion percentage. Like Finley, he has good pocket presence, a quick release, and is mobile enough to make a difference. He played a really good game vs. Miami this year and last year he went for 45 TD’s with only 9 INT’s and 69+ completion percentage. His main issues are questionable arm strength, size (listed at 6’2″ so probably shorter), and seems to stare down his receivers sometimes. Regardless, I think he’d be a great mid-round pick and could erase some of his weaknesses at the senior bowl assuming he gets an invite.

    • steve earle says:

      Watched Finley vs BC today and was not overly impressed. Maybe it wasn’t his best game, I don’t know but as I say, not impressive outing.

      • JH says:

        As did I… it was easily the worst I’ve seen of his. He still made some nice throws but missed a few and just didn’t seem to be on the same page as his receivers. They still got a win though and sometimes you have to get those ugly wins. One thing I forgot to mention about him yesterday is that he doesn’t stare down his receivers, which is something most college QB’s are guilty of doing. He has no problem making multiple reads play after play which is very impressive.

        • steve earle says:

          I would have to see more of his games I guess to get the measure of his ability though I’m not, as I’ve mentioned, not good at breaking down QB’s. They did get the win but BC’s starting QB went down early so that may have effected the outcome? Score not that important for eval individuals though. Hope I can see more of him but if I don’t I’ll take your word on it.

  4. Russell says:

    No other team showed interest in TE Bennett on wariers; because;
    A— He would need time to learn the new teams, Offense. (Not an issue in New England)
    B— Signing Bennett would hurt your teams Compensatory consideration. (not an issue for the Patriots)
    C — New England lost their possible 4th round comp. pick, by Green Bay Cutting Bennett before week 10. A new team signing Bennett would give that comp. pick back to the Patriots.
    D— Nature of the injury a question ??
    E — Unless your a possible play-off team , why would you cut a player invested in by the team; from your roster to make room for Bennett ??

    • Russell says:

      Patriots need to look at CB Vernon Harris (possible P-Squad) 6’1″ 200 lbs. All-Ivy League first team DB. Was signed by K.C. (undrafted) and spent 2016 on injured reserve. He was released and signed by Tampa, and released Sept. 2 2017.
      I did a lot of work on this prospect, who looks to have a great up-side. A strong tackler, Dartmouth’s Career leader in tackles. Intelligent , Engineering degree.

      • steve earle says:

        As of right now as far as I know we don’t have an opening on the P-sqd so seems kind of late to be looking at a player last cut 2 months ago. Other then how you already described him what did you see that interested you?

    • macspak says:

      I agree with your stated reasons and analysis Russ. The thing that bothers and perplexes me is if the shoulder was bad enough to warrant surgery how will that impact his play both as a receiver and blocker? How close is he to one wrong stretch or hit from really NEEDING the surgery rather than it being an option? I like Bennett, much more than Allen, and claiming him certainly is worth the risk (I actually had floated the idea at the trade deadline of an Allen for Bennett trade) and to pick somebody up at this point in the season with his talent and experience at a position of need, back-up or 2nd TE, could be a real coup and push the team over the top. The red zone has been a major weakness for this team and you gotta think he will help there.

    • Philip says:

      I think other teams stayed away from Bennett due to his retirement statement.

      I really do hope that he said this only, because he didn’t wanted to “waste” hos body for a none play-off team, which GB is without Rodgers and he oped for surgery on his should only for this reason and because the injury was that severe

  5. steve earle says:

    reading bennett signed by Pat’s.

    • Russell says:

      Good chance RB Bolden gets cut to make room on the roster for TE Bennett.

    • GM-in-Training says:

      Bennet back in the fold. Woot!

      The cap hit is ~$450K (half of veteran minimum) because Marty B had already received a bunch of upfront bonuses.

      So, why didn’t 30 other clubs claim Marty B off waivers?

      Injured shoulder. Independence streak. Accused by Green Bay of failure to disclose and the Pats let him walk last offseason.

      It now appears letting him test the market was mostly a cap and value thing.

      So, he may not be able to do everything he did last season. He may take a few weeks to mend. At this point, it’s wait and see. In the meantime, the Pats have 4 TE and Grissom is waiting to find out whether the want to put him on the PS (I think he has just a little bit of eligibility left).

      Interesting.

      • td says:

        Why didn’t anyone else claim Bennett? With more than half the teams at or below .500 it’s like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic as the iceberg approaches. With the others they probably did not like the injury claim and/or were waiting for him to clear waivers at which time they could make an offer and not be on the hook for the remaining 2 years. On the other hand the cost this year is less than a half million and if the Pat’s don’t pick up a $200k option next year they are off the hook for the remaining $14 million which you know they will take advantage of. Great signing if he’s really not injured.

  6. Russell says:

    I believe ANY player cut after the TRADE deadline; must pass through waviers. It was reported, Green Bay had interest in QB Hoyer, but Hoyer would not sign with the Packers, but Hoyer was not subject to waviers being cut BEFORE the trade deadline.
    Patriots lose a 4th round compensatory pick, with TE Bennett being cut before week 10, UNLESS another team signs him. Green Bay now stands to increase their compensatory consideration by cutting Bennett before week 10. Any team signing him will stand to lose a Compensatory consideration. (except the Patriots)

    • steve earle says:

      Okay Russell, thanks for clearing that up for me. They have more technicality’s in these thing then I can keep track of. Good to know we can fall back on you.

  7. Daniel Sullivan says:

    There is some sort of a injury plus Green Bay is not going anywhere this year.
    But with Pats he was a real tough guy like Gronk. With both Gronk and Bennett in
    there together it was great an advantage for Pats.

  8. Daniel Sullivan says:

    Martellus Bennett recently waived by Green Bay would greatly strengthen Patriots for
    the Playoff run. What a great addition he would be for Patriots.

    • steve earle says:

      Didn’t I read he was injured? Although if it isn’t serious I agree Bill should bring him in he would be a welcome addition.

      • macspak says:

        had been playing regularly up to last game. Released for failure to disclose. Coincidental that timing is so close to when he announced he was retiring at the end of this year? Failure to disclose means GB believes he had the injury when they signed him as a FA, which means he had it while under contract with the Patriots. Did the Pats know about it leading them to not aggressively pursue him as a FA, especially one seeking a three year contract? Have to think they did.

        • GM-in-Training says:

          Mac, that makes total sense. He was playing tough, but definitely in pain last February.

          He wanted to get paid so he jumped, and the Pats worried he wouldn’t be able to get through another season whole, so they let him run for a similar player a few years younger.

          Hasn’t worked out for either of them.

          I wonder if his issue is bad enough that he clears waivers but good enough to bring back.

        • steve earle says:

          One of the things I’ve read is he mentioned retirement about three days before the trade deadline in order to put pressure on GB to release or trade him because he gave up on their season when Rogers got injured. This is speculation of course but the other theory’s are too. What we don’t know is if his shoulder is a chronic injury or recent acute one and if it’s debilitating or not? He had been playing all along until just recently so we can rightly question GB’s side of the issue until the medical picture becomes clear. If he clears wavers I’d bring him in with an offer of a 2 yr deal if he passes the medical.

        • steve earle says:

          Wait, Am I wrong? Do veteran players with a number of years experience have to go on wavers or are they just FA’s? I think that’s the case.

        • td says:

          I believe all players cut/released go on waivers in which case teams can claim him and if multiple teams claim them it goes to the team with the worse record the previous year.

          I would doubt BB claims Bennett if he has an injury and it seems a commitment level issue.

        • steve earle says:

          @td, After looking it up it says players who have less then four years of service are subject to the waver. After 4 years they apparently are FA’s after release, see the QB Hoyer case, that seems to confirm what I read.

  9. GM-in-Training says:

    So…Hightower officially IR, and McClellin looking like he won’t return. A lot of key pieces of the team held out of practice. Ricky Jean Francoise and Mike Purcell added, though who knows for how long?

    So…are there any decent LB FA out there? Maybe somebody old, but able to perform well for a 7-8 game season and playoffs?

    • steve earle says:

      Any good older LB’s out there? Afraid none that can be found.

      • Philip says:

        Akeem Ayers, Jarvis Jones, Perry Riley and theoretically DeAndre Levy are still FA as far as I know. Noone of the first 3 would be a starter, but could provide depth and has the chance to help in special roles BB und Patricia could create.
        Levy, as far as I know, is more or less retired due to his injuries … If healthy and he could bounce back to his “old” form he woukd be a difference maker

    • Russell says:

      LB Trevor Bates , 6’2″ 245 lbs, N.Y. Giants P-Squad, LB Ellis Brooks 6’2″ 245 lbs, were both in training camp.

      • steve earle says:

        After reflecting on this I don’t think this is what either GM or I had in mind, but yes they would provide some depth.

  10. Russell says:

    Interesting to watch, the Patriots have 4-5 IR guys who should make next yrs. roster.
    WR Edelman
    WR Mitchell
    LB Rivers
    OT Garcia
    CB C. Jones??
    Add to that, a 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3d draft picks that likely make the team.
    Guy’s on the roster NOW who may not be next yr.,
    OT Solder ??
    LB Harris
    ST Slater retire
    RB Bolden
    LB Reilly
    TE Allen
    S Richards ??
    S Chung ??
    DT Branch
    So it would seem BB will draft a LB, S, TE for sure, and a developmental QB, & a DL man.

    • steve earle says:

      Makes sense Russell I’m just having a hard time finding a TE that jumps out at me. Either they are smaller receiving kind or the bigger blacking kind, no complete kind. Help!

      • Russell says:

        TE’s are big and slower, or faster and small. I’m thinking a guy like ; WR Allen Lazard, 6’4″ 224 lbs. 4.58 40 yd. slower for a WR, more of a TE type, miss-match-up off the end of the line.

        • steve earle says:

          Yea maybe but we already have Hollister at TE who is that kind of TE so unless Lizard does something to stand out?

      • Philip says:

        In TE perspective, I like the Notre Dame guy …Smythe or so … Solid blocking, has his issues with receiving, but he has a mobile QB …

        • steve earle says:

          Right Philip, that’s how I see it too but there if we want to have a one dimensional blocking TE we could just as well use an OT and save ourselves a roster spot. If we want a receiving TE there is just no TE coming out that I would draft and no WR that really has size and speed enough to become a mismatch.

  11. Russell says:

    I think BB goes LB early in the draft. This ILB Micah Kiser 6’1′ 240 lbs. is as close to Jard Mayo type as I have seen. Minor knee issue is worth watching, Kiser was 3d in the country (2016) with an avg. of 11.2 tackles a game. Looks better in pass coverage than LB Jewel. His knee issue MAY drop him on draft boards, where the patriots could get him. (remember DT Wilfork? who dropped in the draft to the Patriots with knee issues)
    DT, Maurice Hurst is worth watching on draft boards; at 6’2″ 280 lbs, a tad small, for every down DT. Maybe better at the 4-5 tech..
    Watched a lot of tape on QB Mike White. VERY inconsistent foot work. Two passes foot work, looks good, next three BAD!! He will need major work as a prospect.

    • GM-in-Training says:

      I agree on the importance of LB…and I don’t think BB drafts an LB under 6’3″ 255#. Hightower was worth a 1rd because 6’3″ 265 do everything LB.

      • Russell says:

        I would agree but bigger guys don’t do coverage as well on RB’s.

        • Russell says:

          teddy B. was 6’1′ 245 lbs. ran 4.70 40 yd., & Mayo was 6’1″ 248 lbs, ran a 4.58 40 yd.
          Kiser is listed 6’2″ (more like 6’1″ ) 240 lbs. runs about, 4.76 40 yd.
          So I think the Patriots need a Middle LB in the Mayo, Bruschi mold.

        • steve earle says:

          Your right again Russell, but again who? You rightly point out that Kiser 6-1 240 with 4.76 is a little slower and Jewell is 6-1 236 with 4.78, not much difference and the faster ones are lighter, in the 220’s so none of them in my view should be taken before late 2nd early 3rd. Any other options?

        • Russell says:

          The “new age” NFL LB needs to be smaller, quicker, & a tackling machine, with S qualities. S Quin Blanding 6’1′ 218 lbs. 4.58 40 yd. (Virginia) OR P-Squad player David Jones, 6’3″ 212 lbs.

      • steve earle says:

        The think if you must have LB’s above 250 you need to look more toward collage DE’s that can transition to LB. (Teddy B. was a DE at Arz., Rivers was a DE) Not many Hightowers out there.

    • steve earle says:

      My question would be how early is early? In your mock you take Micah Kiser with our assigned 2nd and that would be a good place if his knee problem lets him slide to there. I would also suggest we have to be sure that problem is fully fixed, not suggesting it isn’t but we have seen first hand a couple or three times the results if it is not. I still like Jewell though where I take him in the 3rd rd. Actually don’t think there is that much differance pass coverage wise between the two. I’d be happy with either.

  12. Turbo says:

    1st mock:

    Patriots trade their 1st for a mid 2nd and mid 3rd.

    2 from SF) Tremaine Edmunds LB
    2) Taven Bryan DT
    2) Kyzir White S/CB
    3) Zach Allen DE
    3) DJ Moore WR
    4 comp) Nic Shimonek QB
    4 comp) Travin Howard LB/S
    6) Arrion Springs CB
    7 comp) Kani Benoit RB

    • steve earle says:

      Good list here Turbo. I see where you and one or two others have BB taking a QB in mid rounds. I didn’t because they gave Hoyer a 3 yr deal so not sure we go that route this coming year given the need to rebuild Def and Off lines. But your probably right, plus I’m a terrible judge of QB’s so avoid them most often as I can.

  13. steve earle says:

    I might be a little earlier then I planned but might as well throw out my 1st mock. Trying this for fit.

    1) Martinas Rankin OLT Miss St (We will be needing a new LT sooner rather then later, better now)
    2 SF) Duke Ejiorfor DE Wake F. (Great rusher solid run defender and a need)
    2 assigned) Vita Vea DNT Wash. ( Big body, quick can penetrate and pressure. Branch not any younger)
    3) Josey Jewell ILB (Not the fastest but moves well, drops into zone, Hits and wraps up, can rush, very good value here)
    4 comp) Cody O’Connell OG Wash St. (6-8/6-9 very tall for LG but pass and run blocks very well, may project to ROT but protecting TB from LG equally important)
    4 comp) Coles Rayes Saf No. Dak. ( 6-2 215, with ex speed at S ball hawk, blitzes, strong tackler)

    • Daniel Sullivan says:

      Steve,

      I would give this a A. Mine just a C. I will put a lot of work into my next one.

      Take Care
      Dan S

      • steve earle says:

        Well look if Williams should fall to us your grade automatically goes up to a B+. The rest are good prospects just some placement questions and perhaps look a little more to needs and fits. Still overall your in the ball park Dan.

    • Russell says:

      Looks good Steve, I like O’Connell, watching tape on him, moves well for 350 lbs. !!!! May be more of an OT. Ejiofor is interesting talked to him once after a Wake game, ( about 30 min. from me) like his football insight. Has large hands. Need to watch more tape.

      • steve earle says:

        Thanks Russell, I tried to go for players that seemed reasonable values for where I picked them. Agree about O’Connell. Figure he could play either OG position if TB can see over him (only knock on him) and has the length and movement at OT. Flexibility is a value in itself.

    • Philip says:

      I dont see them taking a OT early.
      Everybody seems to forget, that OT Garcia was last yeat one of the Pats 3rd rounders. As long as he is healthy next season, he will be, IMO, Solder’s successor

      Furthermore, I dont see them taking a DE early. Due to the injury that kept Rivers out this year, they have kind of a “rookie-DE” next year.
      The bigger needs are slot-WR, of the line LB and SAF.

      And in the end, I think that the 49ers pick will be traded for a future 1st and a 2018 midrounder

      • steve earle says:

        Not forgetting Garcia by any means but lets recall he’s not a proven LT just yet and I’d rather draft a sure thing (or as close to a sure thing as the draft can offer) then put all our eggs in one basket. Also Solder in last year of contract so no backup plan if Garcia isn’t the answer. About injured players you say we must look for a slot WR. Did you write off Edelman already? I expect him to be back but have no problem looking for a slot receiver but later down the draft. like Hunter Renfrow, Clemson or Richie James, Middle Tenn. As I recall Rivers was being worked at OLB before he got hurt which is understandable given the high percentage of time our Def lines up in a 3 man front. I’m not counting on him as a DE so the position looks to be in play for an early pick. Just my reasoning but face it anything any of us project will likely have no resemblance to what BB actually does.

        • Philip says:

          As far as I have learned during my last years of whatching football … Nobody is a sure thing and most of the rookies take a year to adjust (for example Chance Warmack, OG at Alabamer these days … He was a “sure thing” … But didnt worked out that well. Just my opinion.

          I’m not writing of Edelman, but he aint getting younger + a back-up/successor is needed.

          I know, but he was primary a passrusher in college + only the real season could have told his usage.

          Indeed … My projections never hit … This are just my ideas

    • Matt says:

      I agree the Pats need another DE i’m not a fan of Marsh. What do you think of BC’s Landry he is fast but do you think hes to small to play well in the pro’s?

      • Russell says:

        As a LB Landry 6’3″ 245 lbs. looks like a strong prospect, but not as an every down DE. In the NFL I think to take the pounding an every down DE needs to be 260 – 280 lbs.

  14. Daniel Sullivan says:

    Early try at Mock Draft for Patriots.
    1 Connor Williams OT Texas
    2 Tyquan Lewis DE Ohio State
    2 Marcus Allen S Penn State
    3 Riley Ferguson QB Memphis
    4 Traded
    6 Darren Carrington WR Utah
    7 Kenny Young ILB UCLA

    Note to Red Sox Free Agency J.D Martinez is the answer to your big bat in line up.
    Go Pats!

    • steve earle says:

      If Connor Williams is available when we pick, yes by all means but unless we slip badly and get a mid 1st rd assigned pick I don’t believe we have any hope to draft him. Hope I’m wrong, hope we don’t slip. If I’m right then I think our 1st rd pick, if Bill doesn’t trade it down, will be D-line or OLB.

      • Daniel Sullivan says:

        Steve,

        My thinking is Nate Solder was a late first rounder who was highly rated.

        • steve earle says:

          It could happen! It would be great if it does. I’m just a pessimist when it comes to top talent coming down to where they shouldn’t. Plus Connor is just a Jr and was injured. May stay for his Sr year, or not? Buy I’m with you if he is available, no brainer.

    • Ryan says:

      While I can’t say for certain where Carrington will go this early in the process, he’s looking like a day 2 prospect in a relatively weak WR class, barring injury. We’d be extremely lucky to get him in the sixth.

  15. Russell says:

    Watching more QB’s last night, and the development class is quite large, so I’m leaning toward a late 2nd or 3d pick by BB for a QB.
    UP-dated Mock;

    BB trades 1st pick, to Green Bay, for their 2nd ( #47- #52 range) &3d ( #79- # 84 range ) picks.

    49ers 2nd pick,- OT/G Braden Smith Auburn, 6′ 5″ 305 lbs. Powerful player (Benched over 500 lbs. X 3 ) VERY quick feet, pulls very well, Logan Mankins type personality, intelligent.

    Green Bays 2nd pick,- QB Jeremiah Brisco, Sam Houston State, 6’3″ 223 lbs. Accurate, Solid mental progression skills, arm strength, very good decision making skills. Has a lower delivery release point, had shoulder surgery ( rotator cuff) 2013.

    Patriots 2nd pick, – LB Micah Kiser, Virginia 6′ 2″ 244 lbs. Knee issue, HIGHLY intelligent , top 4 tackler in College football, a Jard Mayo type prospect.

    Green Bays 3d pick,- DE Aikeem Coleman , Idaho 6’3 280 lbs. Smaller program , very Quick off the edge, solid with gap responsibilities , good hand use..

    Patriots 3d pick, – WR Allen Lazard , Iowa State, 6’4″ 225 lbs. Good looking WR with strong hands, Good route runner.

    • steve earle says:

      Nice list Russell. Bradon Smith high on my board too, looks like he could challenge to start at LG.
      I’m terrible judging QB talent so won’t, your pick sounds good. LB Kiser also on my board along with Josey Jewell and Tegray Scales. Any thoughts on those two? I like the DE depth, three rounds deep I think. A Saf who interests me mid rd is Coles Rayes from No.Dak. Have you checked this kid out? Anyway good list you have there.

      • Russell says:

        LB Jewel is a good prospect, but not so good in pass coverage. Kiser knee issue or he’s a 1st round pick. (Remember Wilfork) Kiser is Better in pass coverage, VERY smart guy, reminds me of Jard Mayo type prospect.
        DE Class is poor this yr., where the developmental QB’s are very deep this yr.

        • steve earle says:

          Yes, agree on Jewell, very strong vs run but appears from what little I’ve seen moves well. Don’t think he’s used so much in coverage not that he couldn’t do it, am I wrong? You didn’t address Scales, what have you on him? About the DE depth, not so sure it’s not very deep. To me I see a good number of guy currently playing inside who I think could move into the 3-4 DE in the pros. Maurice Hurst comes to mind and there are others.

  16. Yohy says:

    I’m a bit concerned about the future. To me the 3 most important positions are QB, LT ( protect QB ) and DE ( attack opposing QB).
    The Pats have a 40 year old QB, a free agent to be LT and a DE coming off ACL surgery. A lot of question marks.
    I like extra early round picks but they have to hit on them. No more Geneo Grissom, or Jordan Richards or trading away picks for guys like Ealy or O’Shaughnessy who get cut.

    • steve earle says:

      Very true but Bill has habit of selecting Grissom’s, O’Shoughnessy’s, and Easley’s after trading down for multipal picks. Don’t know if just picking assigned picks ( higher picks) would help or not but wish he would try it for once. Either that or get better talent annalists. Only thing that has saved us is UDFA’s that keep making the team. We sure have enough special team players.

  17. macspak says:

    Wow, that really sucks for Watson – torn ACL. I was quite impressed with him when he played the Patriots and even more so after the Seattle game. Probably the best of the young QB’s and best to come along in a while.

    • macspak says:

      God are the Browns stupid. You would have thought the new regime would be smarter.

      • macspak says:

        so now we are on a 49’s watch hoping they lose the remainder of their games and the Browns, somehow, win at least one. For one year we hope SF is worse than Cleveland. #33, 34, 35 or 36 would be nice but 33 the nicest

      • steve earle says:

        You know it all starts right at the top. We have Bob Kraft so we’re spoiled, half the NFL owners out there have little or no idea what or how. Good for us.

    • steve earle says:

      Agree! So who is the back up now? Hey that reminds me, any word on Hogan’s injury? Being down for a few days don’t know if I missed any announcements?

  18. Russell says:

    VERY likely BB drafts a QB and the 1st round gives you 4yrs contract with a 5th yr. option. But I have my doubts BB will do that, BUT depends who they are targeting. I like QB Jeremiah Briscoe, over Mike White. QB Rudolph likely will be gone by the time BB picks, as I see him going to Arizona. Jets & Browns will be looking for a QB, also.

    • steve earle says:

      As to drafting a QB early, in theory you make good sense but the devil as always is in the details. Who? I agree QB Rudolph will likely go somewhat higher then our pick but it’s not impossible to think BB might trade up. He’s done it before, seldom but it’s happened. Also possible that he goes the other way and fixes the def early. No way of knowing. If my guess is anywhere close I think he trades down our first (barring a targeted QB coming to us) and strengthens the def and adds an OG/OT who can compete to start. Means he holds off on an early QB pick until 2019 draft. A later rd developmental QB is also possible in 18 too.
      In a separate issue there is still the question of CB Butler. I’s still like to resign him but that must depend on how he finishes up this year and how Gilmore plays when he comes back? No predictions on that yet but it will be worth watching. Buy the way what is your view on the transition tag on Butler?

      • Russell says:

        Well, Steve I’m not a fan of the transition tag. If you DON’T match the offer, you don’t get any compensation. (No Compensatory pick)
        A.) The Franchise tag will be $15 mil. + for a CB for one yr.
        B.) try to sign him to say a 4 yr. ($8 mi. per yr.?) to spread out the cost
        C.) Let him walk, and get a 3d round compensatory pick 2019.
        D.) Non-Exclusive Franchise tag, which demands to much draft capital, plus a big contract.
        Remember unlike Garoppolo (2nd round pick) the Patriots have no draft capital in Butler (free agent)

        • steve earle says:

          Okay good breakdown Russell. My preference would be B, Sign him for 4 years at $8 mil per. He’s still young and capable. It would give us two proven CB’s long term and might as well secure that even at the large investment in the position. It would also mean Bill could invest our draft picks in positions of greater needs. Been working on my board and after the weekend I’ll share my thinking and ask for feed back.

        • macspak says:

          4 yrs for $32 mill sounds good to us and would be good for the Pats but Butler has a say in this and I doubt it sounds good to him otherwise he already would have signed. I think a minimum of $10 Mill a year with 50% bonus might do the trick.

        • steve earle says:

          @Mac, I could go for the $10 mil+ x 4 yrs just hope Bill can. The CB position is a key on def.

    • GM-in-Training says:

      1st round QB are 50/50 whether they ever amount to anything. BB hates those odds.

      It’s much safer to pick a player with traits in the 2-3rd round, and develop them.

      What the Pats liked about Jimmy G was quick release over the top, accuracy and pocket presence. They want somebody who can thrive in their hurry up system.

      As far as what the Pats do with picks (hopefully) 32 and 34, they could go so many ways, but linemen are more likely to perform according to draft level, so OT and DE make sense to me.

    • Yohy says:

      I know the sentiment is to find the Patriots next QB and keep this dynasty going, but how does a QB help the Pats for the remainder of the Brady era? An OT or dynamic skill position player would be better. A DE or a OLB that can help get the defense off the field on 3rd down would be nice

  19. steve earle says:

    Hay, hay power is back on up here in Gilford NH. Jimmy G for what to who? Okay I heard but need to read what is being said here.

    • steve earle says:

      It’s official, Pats say Hoyer is now Brady backup.

    • macspak says:

      Welcome back Steve. I was wondering where you’ve been. I thought the trade left you speechless!

      • steve earle says:

        LOL Mac, Well yea that too but we lost power up her late Sun night and didn’t get it back until after we got home around 5pm so unable to comment or even read comments. Thing is I’m very confused as to why now? I asked Russell but so far no answer on the Transition tag question. See my 6:23 post to him. Maybe I’m all wrong about it but that was my understanding of how it works. Also how could all that two 1st rd pick offers talk been legit if BB settled for a 2nd now?

  20. GM-in-Training says:

    QB Hoyer visiting Pats…”expected to receive an offer.”

    So, veteran minimum for Hoyer will be more than Garoppolo was getting. Word was Hoyer had some guaranteed money from the Niners, so joining the Pats should work for veteran minimum and the Niners still effectively pay most of Hoyer’s 2017 pay. I think that’s how it might work, anyway. I’m not sure how that affects compensatory stuff later. If he doesn’t play much after the trade, maybe not at all?

    Niners also have a PS opening, as a DT was snatched by Houston.

    • Mike Gerken says:

      Since Hoyer was released, he will not count in the compensatory formula regardless of how much he signs for or how much he plays. If he would have been included in the trade, then he would have counted.

      • GM-in-Training says:

        Mike,

        Thanks for clarifying.

        Also, I meant to say DT Angelo Blackson was snatched off the Pat’s PS.

    • Russell says:

      Hoyers deal with the 49ers was 2 yr. $12 mil. $10 Guaranteed over two yrs. I think they owe him the guaranteed money.

  21. GM-in-Training says:

    So…it’s two hours past the trade deadline and no new announcements of Pats acquisitions.

    No DE or TE trade.

    No athletic OLB being misused as a 4-3 DE on their existing team.

    I wonder if other teams decided to stop giving reclamation project players to the Pats…or if there really just wasn’t an available player that would’ve been a net upgrade at a position of need for the Pats?

    The fact that the Pats dealt Garoppolo and didn’t immediately flip the 2nd suggests they are still maximizing value and building for the future. Kind of cool.

  22. GM-in-Training says:

    If the Pats want a #2 QB for very little, who has been practicing all season, probably the easiest avenue is to pillage someone else’s PS.

    This llist of all PS additions in early September is a little outdated, but it’s one easy place to look for prospects. https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/3/16223208/nfl-practice-squad-signings-2017-waiver-claims-tracker

    Just hit Ctrl-F and input QB, to see the 15 or so PS QBs around the league.

  23. Russell says:

    Lots of talk about QB Hoyer, he was not part of the trade because of his Contract which had $10 mil. guaranteed. “IF” the Patriots sign him , I look for 1yr. $1.5 mil. contract, BUT I have my doubt’s he’s what the Patriots want.
    QB Heniki was on the P-Squad, about two weeks.

    • Russell says:

      QB Alek Torgerson is on the Redskins P-Squad, and could be snatched with Garoppolo’s roster spot open.
      The Patriots showed great interest in Torgerson at the Senior Bowl I believe, or maybe shrine game?

      • Jeff says:

        I think the idea behind going for Hoyer would be that he’s been in the system before and could be a serviceable backup this year without much of an adjustment period, rather than bringing in a young kid who you’d be developing in hopes that he can contribute in a year or 2.

        • steve earle says:

          Agree Hoyer most likely at vet min. Wonder if BB is looking at a QB like Mason Rudolph in the draft. Give him a couple years behind Brady so when Tom gangs them up we hit the ground running, (no pun intended).

  24. Jeff says:

    With 4 picks in the first 3 rounds next year, I hope the Pats fortify the defense with an edge player, a linebacker, a strong safety, and a corner. I’m assuming left tackle will be filled in free agency – I hope they don’t take a chance that they can grab a good left tackle ready to start day 1 in the draft. As much as we would have liked a bigger haul, a high second round pick is pretty good draft capital, and they need some high picks without having a first round pick the last 2 years.

  25. Russell says:

    The Patriots believed Garoppolo would sign a “friendly” extension to be the next face of the team after Brady. Garoppolo wanted to play, and get good money, so backing-up Tom for 2-4 yrs. was not to his liking. (age 28-30 before starting)
    The 49ers must now sign Garoppolo , or tag him ($16-18 mil.) “if” he shows promise this next 6-7 games. That’s why only one draft pick. The 49ers 2nd, will likely be in the 33- 38 range, so nearly a 1st round pick, at less cost (Rookie Contract).
    I like the deal, but who’s the back-up, the rest of this yr. ???
    Patriots showed interest in QB Alex Torgerson (free agent, played with Atlanta in preseason.)and would be affordable.
    Don’t be surprised if CB Butler is next to go, not agreeing to a deal. Tagging him will cost $15 mil. ++ next yr.

    • steve earle says:

      Maybe I’m wrong but isn’t there such a thing as a transition tag that allows a team to retain the services of someone like Butler by matching any agreement or getting a 1st rd draft pick from the team that signs him? If so Pat’s do not have to franchise him, right?

      • Philip says:

        Transition tag is tha average of the top 10 salaries at the player’s position… it guarantees the (former) players club to match any offer received from other teams, but if they dont match it, they dont get any compensation.

        You are talking about the “non-exclusive franchise tag” … which is the most used tag. … it ist the top 5 salaries over the last 5 years … and the original team receives two first-round picks as compensation

        so transition tag is good if you want to see what a players value is but you are fine with letting him go.
        Non-exclusive tag is the one u really want to keep the player, but if he leaves for 2 first-round picks, it’s fine … I cannot imagine any team is willing to give up two first for M.Butler, as they where already unwilling to give-up one first rounder last off-season

        • steve earle says:

          Yes Philip, thank you for clearing that up for me. How that goes will depend on how our two starting CB’s, Butler and Gilmore, finish up the year I believe. @ Russell, I hope your right that Bill resigns Butler for the $8-10 mil.

      • Russell says:

        Very well done break down on the tags, Phillip. My guess is they try to sign Butler for a friendly deal to stay in New England. My guess his market value is about $8-10 mil. per yr.

        • Philip says:

          You’re welcome …. I don’t think that M. Butler will sign a team friendly team after this off-season … And the re-sign him (if so, i think its 4 years 40mil with 20 granted due to his age for example?) it will depend on the on-field communication with Gilmore … That’s something that needs to improve …

          Still pissed that they didn’t oped for AJ Bouye

  26. Russell says:

    Patriots have shown interest in QB Alex Torgerson (free agent)

  27. macspak says:

    I was without internet and cable until an hour or so ago due to our recent storm and when I saw this as a by-line on NESN I honestly thought it was a Halloween joke until I remember Halloween doesn’t have jokes. That is April Fools Day. so next thought is who and how much did they get. A friggin 2nd rounder. Are you effen kidding me? Yes, they overplayed their hand. Yes, they wanted to see if Brady still could play at a high level. But, word was they wanted a good back-up who could fill in if TB was injured and still have championship hopes. Where are those hopes now if TB is injured? Rumor about Hoyer returning. Experienced NFL QB and with system but Hoyer? You really think he is a SB QB? No rookie FA is a viable back-up either. Pretty sure we know what next year’s draft will be, or do we?

    So much for thinking nothing major or nothing at all would transpire before trade deadline. Now the question is – what’s next before tonight?

    Shocker. F’in shocker. Why now? Why so little? What did they gain?

    • steve earle says:

      Yup, my first reaction too. Why not transition him this next year and get a !st rounder? And what was all that BS about turning down two 1st’s last off season? Something stinks seems to me.

  28. Philip says:

    I knew that they wouldn’t get a 1st rounder of any team who would need a QB right now, but I was expecting that it would be a 2nd + two late round picks like a 6th and a future 7th or plus a 5th round pick. Still I think it is a trade that works for both sides.

    Shannahans system is probably too difficult for any QB to shine immediatly and without having a lot of time to study, I immagine the 49ers to start Jimmy G after their bye. So that would be his first start at week 12 and 6 games left. These games are against the SEA, CHI, HOU, TEN, JAX and LAR. IMO he will be able to win a max of 3 games when lucky.

    So NE secured a high pick in 2018. Which could be used for a now predicted first rounder who will drop out of the first round because there is a mystic combine riser. (last year OT Robinson dropped out, couple of years ago SAF L. Collins). So they have good chances to grab a STUD.

    This years QB class could be rather depp and so they can find another Jimmy G in the 3rd round, which would leaf them the first 3 picks within the 64picks to grab EDGE, LB and a late round SAF (BB and his 2nd round SAF).

  29. GM-in-Training says:

    Reactions:
    1. I think the Pats waited to move Garrapolo because they wanted to see how Brady did through the start of the season. He did ok.

    2. There was no way the Pats would franchise tag Garrapolo then trade him because it blow a hole in the cap. Letting him leave for a compensatory pick in 2019 wasn’t as rich and would take too long.

    3. The 34th pick in the 2018 draft may be good enough to grab a stud DE with a couple years left on their rookie contract. Look for a team with a new regime that didn’t draft a blue chip DE, and a DE who is good but not the #1 DE on his team.

    4. I expect the Pats to bring in a Rookie QB on the 53 and add a QB to the PS. They’re going to need a backup backup plan.

    5. When the Pats flip the Niners 2nd, I expect the Pats to get a player and a pick. They do love them some 6th rounders that they can they flip for a stud ST player, or to take a flyer on a player who is being used wrong on their current team…like maybe Kikaha from New Orleans.

    • steve earle says:

      I really expect that the flip will likely be our 1st, it’s been Bills MO for most of his years. Doesn’t mean he won’t flip the SF 2nd too, just saying.

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