Scouting Report: Ahkello Witherspoon, CB

With the real possibility Malcolm Butler could be gone, will Corner be a top target for the Patriots. If so, does Witherspoon fit the mold the Patriots look for?

With the real possibility Malcolm Butler could be gone, will Corner be a top target for the Patriots. If so, does Witherspoon fit the mold the Patriots look for?

NEPD Staff Writer: Mike Gerken

Well, like usual, the boring old Patriots sit back and do nothing in Free Agency again this year. Who am I kidding? I can’t even type that without laughing and I am pretty sure my dog thinks I am crazy. In all seriousness, a lot has happened since the start of Free Agency that has altered the draft strategy of the Patriots and the crazy people like me and you who try and figure out what the team is going to do. The crazy thing is, as I am typing this, I know that things are still evolving and what we all think we know today could be completely wrong by tomorrow. The fact still remains that the Patriots still have a number of draft picks and will be looking for player to improve their team. Despite not having a first or second round pick, there will still be plenty of talent on the board when the Patriots do actually make a pick and maybe Witherspoon could be one of those guys.

Before I get into the scouting report, I want to talk a little about Malcolm Butler. As an outsider, this whole situation seems really strange. From all accounts, Butler has been a humble person off the field and a very good player on it. He seems like the perfect Patriot. The article Mike Reiss wrote hinted at some things that maybe us fans are unaware of with Butler. As we all know, Reiss is very well connected to the team and has been a mouthpiece for the organization in the past. I honestly don’t know what happened to create this wedge between player and team, but I have to think it is more than just a financial issue. We may never know. You do not often see teams part ways with a young pro bowl player at one of the most important positions in football unless there are issues that we as fans are unaware of. Maybe it is as simple as the Patriots think Butler has maximized his playing potential and don’t want to pay him, but the story just doesn’t seem to add up in my opinion. Okay, now onto the report.

Positives:

Witherspoon has incredible physical attributes for the position. He has a great combination of size and speed, giving him the ability to cover just about anyone on the outside. What I really love about Witherspoon when watching him is his fluidity. His change of direction, foot speed, and ability to mirror receivers reminds me of corners who are much smaller than he is. He showed the ability to turn his head and locate the ball without losing sight of his man or having to downshift his momentum. He made a lot of plays on the ball, tying him for second in passes defended last year. Witherspoon breaks on the ball quickly and makes every catch contested. He is a smart player and takes proper angles to create small windows for Quarterbacks to throw into.

Negatives:

While Witherspoon has more than ideal height and athleticism for the position, he lacks bulk. He can be bullied by physical receivers and must get stronger to be more effective in that area. He struggles to break down and tackle in open space. He is happy letting other players around him come up and make tackles in run defense. Witherspoon can get beat on complex routes and needs to recognize route combinations quicker. He got his hands on a lot of balls, but did not have a lot of turnovers. Witherspoon is still relatively new to the position and is still raw in many facets of the game.

Summary:

Witherspoon is a guy you can look at from two different perspectives. From a pure cover point of view, he is outstanding. I love the way he moves, not just for a guy his size, but for any corner in this draft. He has such quick feet and easy speed that he can cover just about anyone. On the other hand, he plays the game with little physicality. There is no way to put this lightly, he is bad in run support and tackling in general. He has to bulk up and he has to become more physical to become a well rounded player in the NFL. If you are looking for a pure cover corner though and can live with the lack of run support, Witherspoon is going to be a great value. From my own personal perspective, I really like him. He has been one of my favorite Corners to watch. That being said, I think the Patriots like Corners who are more physical and are strong tacklers, so he may not even be on their board. For me, he is a top 75 player and I think if he is available after round 2, he is a steal.

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148 Responses to “Scouting Report: Ahkello Witherspoon, CB”

  1. Stephen J says:

    Malcolm Butler update

    Just posted

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7jFCC3VQAA_eHW.jpg:large

    What does that mean Nothing Changed but the Change

    Did the Pats extend him an offer

  2. Russell says:

    LB Eric Wilson, 6’2″ 225 lbs ran a sub-4.5 40 yd for the Patriots work-out and had a 39.5 vertical. I’ve watch some tape quite good prospect led the ACC with over 100 tackles two yrs. in a row. Special teams tape is very good as well!! Looks like Nate Ebner. 6th-7th rounder.

    • Russell says:

      also watch tape on S Obi Melifanwu, and think he’s not a S, could be a CB but he’s a project who will likely be over-drafted.
      Josh Jones FAR better S, with a LB mindset strong tackler.
      IIf the Patriots take DT Tomlinson at #72 they should get S Jones at #96

      • Turbo says:

        I don’t think Jones is going to be there at #96. If BB wants to take him, he probably have to do it with #72.

        • Stephen J says:

          I’m feeling the same way. Not sure if that is just Twitter NFL having Josh Jones moving up or if the real NFL see’s it that way. This is where if BB is truly interested I’m sure he will have a good feel for where he will go but it may come down to which player is he more interested in with that 72nd pick. I’d thought he was interested in Grady Jarrett when he was coming out went to his pro day tested him out personally seemed to show a lot of interest then he passed on him and the Falcons picked him up in the 4th almost came back to bite him in the but he put on quite the performance at the SuperBowl this year.

        • macspak says:

          Projections are S Jones will fully recover and be ready to start the season. I see him sliding, maybe, into the 2nd round but probably not beyond mid second and very unlikely into early third. Really could use a late 1st and early and mid 2nd in this draft.

    • Stephen J says:

      Just posted some info on Missouri States Dylan Cole LB below he opened some eyes today

  3. Stephen J says:

    This just came out on RB Jalen Hurd.

    http://www.rotoworld.com/player/cfb/133897/jalen-hurd

    I have heard his name but don’t know anything about him. Any thoughts

  4. Stephen J says:

    I think Russell will like this tweet

    https://twitter.com/ConnorJRogers/status/841419818972639234

    I’m not a huge fan of the DT class this year and not seeing the need for this year but I am warming up to him. He could be a steady long term player, just not sure I’d take him over other players such as Josh Jones that the Pats have shown interest in.

    • Russell says:

      YES, BB was at Alabama’s pro day watching Tomlinson. Tomlinson turned down a scholarship at HARVARD to go to Alabama to play football on a bigger stage. Watch his tape he shows up on every play!!
      Tomlinson is the #1 DT on my Patriots board, with Wormley #2.

  5. Duky says:

    Jimmy G. won’t be traded. Believe that.

  6. Todti says:

    A player I would like to see getting drafted by the Patriots is Tanoh Kpassagnon. He’s a developmental prospect right now, who could play base end and move inside on passing downs once he reaches his potential. That’s likely multiple years down the road, but he’s very athletic as well as intelligent and mature, so I don’t see a reason he would not respond to coaching. He could be both DT #5 and DE #5 right now. Just to show how athletic he is, let’s compare him to Malik McDowell and Larry Ogunjobi, two DTs who are praised for their athleticism.

    Size:
    Kpass – 6’7”, 289lbs, 35 5/8” arms, 10 5/8” hands
    McD – 6’6”, 295lbs, 34 6/8” arms, 10 4/8” hands
    Ogun – 6’3”, 305lbs, 32 5/8” arms, 10” hands

    Explosiveness & Quickness:
    Kpass – 30” vert, 128” broad, 7.46s 3cone
    McD – 28.5” vert, 112” broad, 7.69s 3cone
    Ogun – 32” vert, 116” broad, 7.55s 3cone

    Speed:
    Kpass – 4.83s 40dash, 4.62s 20shuttle
    McD – 4.85s 40dash, 4.53s 20shuttle
    Ogun – 4.97s 40dash, 4.75s 20shuttle

    Kpassagnon is not a speedster, which is why he won’t be an edge rusher. But his frame is supposedly not maxed out yet, so if he would add a couple of pounds he might be a nice DT.

    • Stephen J says:

      Nice job in putting that together. I’ve been thinking about him just hesitant because it seems like players like that seem to get over drafted. If he is available later on in the draft then I would be for it but if he gets over drafted then I’d pass. Where is a good spot for him. Here is what I am thinking. They chose Trey Flowers in the 4th and developed him. Now was Trey more Pro Ready or was he about at the same area of development. If at the same area of development then 4th round would seem to be right if he is more raw and needs more time to develop then 5th would seem about right.

    • Russell says:

      Very good putting this together Todti. My issue is coming from a smaller program, and the level off O-lineman he faced. A few yrs. ago BB drafted a DE Moore I think was his name with similar size, from smaller program.

      • Todti says:

        Great point! I forgot about him, I had really high hopes for him back then. By the way, Moore’s numbers were similar to or even slightly better than Kpassagnon’s, although Moore was a bit smaller.

  7. Russell says:

    Patriots interviewed ILB Eric Wilson Cincinnati, 6’2″ 225 lbs, runs a 4.68 40 yd. Good tape interesting guy. Good Special teams guy.
    Patriots also interviewed, ILB T.J. Hollomam, South Carolina, 6’3″ 230 lbs, runs a 4.70 40 yd. His tape was not as good as Wilson.
    Patriots interviewed, OLB/DE Jimmie Gilbert, Colorado, 6″4″, 230 lbs, 34 3/8 ” arms runs a 4.66 40 yd. My Binky, very good tape and interview.
    Patriots are showing a pattern for a guy they may like.

    • Stephen J says:

      I was just looking at that and thinking the same thing. They are definitely showing an interest in the LB position. This maybe something or it maybe not but all the ones that they have looked at and shown interest in so far that we know of seem to be on the smaller more athletic side like KGH last year.

    • Stephen J says:

      Another LB to keep your eyes out for is Missouri States Dylan Cole 6’0 239

      He is killing it at his Pro Day look at these numbers

      https://twitter.com/Eric_Edholm/status/844603371403333632

      • Stephen J says:

        Some perspective on these numbers

        He placed 2nd amongst all LB’s in the 40 to Jabrill Peppers(4.46) who is 26 lbs lighter

        He benched 32 times which led all LB’s next closest was Ben Gedeon at 27 unless you want to list Derek Rivers who is listed as a DE at 247 lbs he did 30

        He also led all LB’s in the Vertical Jump at 39″ next closest was TJ Watt at 37″

        His 3 cone of 6.82 was 4th over all behind TJ Watt(6.79) Tyus Bowser(6.75) and Brooks Ellis(6.80)

        He also led the nation in tackles as a senior with 12.91 per game this past year with 142 in 11 games of which 85 were Solo and he had 8.0 TFL’s 2 Ints 6 Pass Deflections and 4 Pass Break Ups.

        Pretty Impressive

  8. Lawrence says:

    Would you trade Jimmy G for Cleveland’s #1 pick in the first round? I would. Would you keep the pick? Again, I would. My selection would be Myles Garrett … perhaps a Von Miller for the defense. Imagine that chess piece!

    • Stephen J says:

      Easy answer No. Brady goes down and your going to rely on Jacoby Brissett to get you through the season and the playoffs. He may get you through the season but definitely not the playoffs. Also Myles Garrett is a good football player but he is no Von Miller.

    • Turbo says:

      I would trade Jimmy for the #1 pick in a heartbeat and then trade down to get picks back. What i definitely would want is a 2018 1st rounder to get our futurue franchise QB next year.

      • Stephen J says:

        There is no guarantee that you would be able to trade out of that position. Also it seems like Cleveland wanted an additional 2nd round pick now is that for them to use because they need multiple players or is it because they want to put together a package of picks to get Jimmy G. For me IF I were to trade Jimmy G I would do it for a package of picks and not just one say their 12th 2 seconds and a 3rd would do it. Right now we have plenty of open roster spots to fill to meet the 90 man mark plus there are so many good players in that 50-80 range in the draft those extra picks would be nice. The only problem I would have is the backup QB position not sure what you would do there in case something happened to Brady this year.

        • Turbo says:

          If possible i would want more picks for Jimmy as well (2018 1st, 2017 #33, 2017#52) , but the question was if i would do it for the number 1 overall pick, and i would do that too. And i’m pretty sure we could find a trade partner who likes Garrett enough to pull trigger.

        • macspak says:

          anybody know the history, going backwards, of who TB’s back-ups were? I’m not sure we very often had a capable back-up that could have taken us to the SB if Brady went down. Few, if any, teams do, which is why they are back-ups. Not sure why now there is so much emphasis on having what so few teams have or ever had. Theory is and was, with rare exception, if you lose your starting QB you ain’t going to the SB.

          As to trading JG even up for the #1: I also would say no for the same reason stated above. I prefer the multiple high picks this year and next and you just don’t know if anybody really badly wants the #1 this year and if they would trade with the Patriots. Give me #12 and a 1st next year with some 2, 3’s or 4’s thrown in, which with drafting luck would set up this team for the next 5 years or beyond.

        • steve earle says:

          My 2 cents: I’d much rather the #12 this year then two or three additional picks over this year and next. It would all depend on how high the other picks are and when.

  9. Stephen J says:

    Another Undrafted big RB that had a nice pro day

    https://twitter.com/NFLDraftBible/status/840902268929077248

  10. Stephen J says:

    Meet another smaller Athletic OLB Vantrel McMillan

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIhUT8E2AZ0

    late to undrafted

    • Russell says:

      Interesting prospect 6’3′ 240 lbs. a DE with good quickness, and a few “moves’ as a pass rusher. Controls his gap/edge fairly well, big OT’s move him in the run game.

  11. Turbo says:

    So guys who do you like the most for our 72nd pick? I have a lot of guys that i would be thrilled to have with that pick.

    Tyus Bowser
    Tarrell Basham
    Josh Jones
    Marcus Williams
    Raekwon McMillan
    Ryan Anderson

    How about you?

    • Russell says:

      I’ m thinking DT Dalvin Tomlinson, at #72, But there are some great choices.

      • Turbo says:

        Wouldn’t it be better to draft a DT next year? Pats already have 4 guy at DT position in the possible 53 roster, plus 2 in the practice squad.

        • Russell says:

          Roster locks at DT Branch, Brown, Guy. DE Ealy,( last yr. deal) Flower, Ninkovich (last yr deal)
          Others, DT Hamilton, Valentine, DE Grissom

      • Todti says:

        I like him as well, but I agree with Turbo. Considering the playing time Valentine got last year, the Patriots didn’t seem to be disappointed with him so I don’t see a reason to replace him. Which means that 4 DTs are likely locked in on the roster. I’d rather draft a high-upside prospect later on, maybe someone that can be more versatile down the line even though the Patritos do not really focus on that at the moment.

        By the way, those 4 DTs likely making the roster, especially assuming Brown and Valentine will be improving, are all great against the run. Will be interesting to watch against the Bills and Panthers as well as Steelers’ and Raiders’ OLs. I’m also excited to see whether Roberts can be more than just a running-down LB.

    • Stephen J says:

      As it stands now for me it would be Joe Mathis

      Out of those you have definitely Tyus Bowser if he is still available(late 2nd to mid-late 3rd)

      Wouldn’t mind Raekwon McMillan but think he will be gone by then

      I also like Josh Jones but think he could be had with one of the next two picks

    • steve earle says:

      Of this selection my pick would be Tyus Bowser.

    • Todti says:

      Bowser or Chris Wormley. Wormley would be labelled a reach, but he just screams Patriots to me and Belichick doesn’t give a s*** about supposed draft position.

  12. Stephen J says:

    Fabian Moreau suffers suffers pectoral strain on bench press at pro day today

    https://twitter.com/DraftAnalyst1/status/844320639393681417

  13. Stephen J says:

    I was looking for large late to undrafted RB’s today and came across this

    https://twitter.com/bouncehousearmy/status/787683590981189632

    • Stephen J says:

      He is William (Will) Stanback. He is 5’116″ basically 6’0′ weighs 230(5) lbs. He initially played at UCF but was kicked of team(failed drug tests) and transferred to Virginia Union. Since transferring he had the help of family and his new team coaches and cleaned up his act. In an interview he said he learned how to watch film at UCF and he became a much more knowledgeable and better football player because of it. He carried that to his new team and in 10 games ran for 1299 yards and 15 TD’s.

    • Stephen J says:

      When at the Regional he was asked how a talent-like him ended up at Virginia Union, Stanback’s explanation was simple after being immature and failing drug tests, I was removed from the program, I tried to get back with a D-I school, but I didn’t have a redshirt. So, I had to go to a D-II school and that’s how I ended up at Virginia Union.”

      “Now, a different man from the man two years ago, hopefully, a team will give me a chance to prove that,”

    • Stephen J says:

      As of now I haven’t come across the results of the combine but I did come across something that was a big red flag as far as the Pats go and that is fumbles in 207 touches/carries he had 3 lost fumbles. So the journey continues. Next player..

    • steve earle says:

      Yea, defender was late in his breakdown so off balance, but sure looked impressive for RB.

  14. Russell says:

    New Orleans Saints signed CB Sterling Moore, and LB Mati-tao, money is running out on Butler. Surprisingly Butler has had little interest from other teams in need of CB help. Dallas, Green Bay, Detroit…….. with late round 1st picks.

    • macspak says:

      OvertheCap shows NO with $11.6 M before these signings. Any idea on their terms? Still, they are get very close to theoretically being out of cap space but of course their are ways to manipulate that including large guaranteed up front money and then push the cap hit into later years but, is Butler worth it to them for them to do that?

    • steve earle says:

      Butler thing getting strange in N.O. Have to wonder if they have given up the idea of signing him? It’s one thing to look and want another to invest big bucks and their 1st rd pick.

  15. Stephen J says:

    I was looking at regional combines today.

    This Kid(Montay Crockett) of Georgia Southern can fly

    https://twitter.com/FusionSport/status/840674418917560321

    New Orleans Regional Combine

  16. Stephen J says:

    OMG JoJo (Joe) Mathis Murdered a guy on the field of play. Take a look.

    https://twitter.com/JC1053/status/843987759849246720

  17. Russell says:

    Patriots met with S Josh Jones N.C. State who had a great work-out. I watch more tape on Jones while watching CB Jack Tocho. Both look very draftable for sure.

  18. Stephen J says:

    As of right now it looks like there is going to be quite a few Undrafted Free Agents brought in this year with the active roster at 61 right now according to the Patriots.com Roster. Add in the current 7 draft picks that brings it to 68. Then add in several more Free Agents of our own and from other teams that would bring it up to around 75-80. So you are looking at around approx 10-15 Undrafted Free Agents this year as of right now.

    Here are 2 that I came across tonight

    Washburn LB Cody Heiman He ran the 40 in 4.57, had a 36 vertical, a 10-2 broad jump, a 4.21-second short shuttle, a 6.90-second three-cone, and added 31 bench lifts. He worked out at both linebacker and fullback
    The Monday Morning QB had an article entitled The Small-Town Hero located here
    http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/02/14/nfl-draft-longshots-alton-voss-grand-valley-state-former-drug-addict-germone-hopper-clemson-cody

    • Stephen J says:

      The 2nd one being Kenny Moore a DB from Valdosta State University

      1st Team D2 All American who tested well across the board at his pro day

      https://twitter.com/DraftDiamonds/status/843943289946591234

      Even with those test scores it maybe a reach considering how deep the DB class is this year plus coming from a D2 school but I thought he’s worth a mention.

    • Ryan says:

      Both guys look like great UDFAs. Smaller, more agile guys at LB and CB should be priorities after the draft, if not during.

      • steve earle says:

        Not sure why smaller more agile guys would be a priority over big agile guys. You obviously have some thinking on how smaller guys could be used effectively over the latter. What’s your thinking on this?

  19. GM-In-Training says:

    Tyler Gaffney waived.

    1 less candidate for thumper 1st-down RB.

    Last spring he was waived for 3 days, then resigned to a lower salary. Maybe this has to do with control or year-2 compensation or some such, since the Burkhead addition gives the team even more leverage on Gaffney, they might have decided to use that. My impression has been that Gaffney has the tools to play 1st-3rd down, but not special teams, or reliably stay on the field.

    Why now?

    • Stephen J says:

      Maybe they were waiting to make sure they got the Rex Burkhead signing official. If they didn’t then they would have him to fall back on. Just a thought.

  20. Stephen J says:

    Today is Toledo’s Pro Day something like 26 teams there. That being said here is a scouting report by PFF on Mike’s Binkie Kareem Hunt

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-scouting-report-kareem-hunt-rb-toledo/?utm_content=buffer1652c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=college

    He has gone through drills but no word yet on times

    • Stephen J says:

      He ran a 4.57 40 time today at his pro day.

      • steve earle says:

        40 time not going to be shocking anyone but I’m more interested in production ability. From what I read Hunt will move the ball downfield, maintain control and be a positive impact on the offense. He would be a valuable addition no doubt as would be several other prospects. To bad we can’t take all of them.

        • Stephen J says:

          Well it wasn’t just his 40 time though he improved that since the combine(4.62 and 4.66) which helped his value but was it did he run a faster 40 because he cut weight the answer in this case is no so this just confirmed not only what they saw on tape but answer some questions in regards to what am I getting a slower bigger back a quicker smaller back or a mid sized back at a decent speed with what I saw on tape. Now each team will have a better idea of where they would draft him.

    • Mike Gerken says:

      Any word on his 3 cone or short shuttle? I have looked all over and made some phone calls, but I have not heard anything.

      • Stephen J says:

        This from news-herald.com

        no official times were given to the media members in attendance at the Fetterman Training Center

        and

        Aside from running the 40, Hunt and others went through agility drills such as the shuttles and broad jump. There were also other drills, such as pass-catching drills, where Hunt said he wanted to prove he was a versatile running back.

        Toledo coach Jason Candle said he hadn’t seen the numbers Hunt had posted at the pro day workout

        but he did run the 3 cone verified from this video clip

        https://twitter.com/JordanStrack/status/843894562871562241

        • Stephen J says:

          Hard to say exactly due to angles and start time but ran from 0.25-0.33 mark so estamating above 7.0 seconds but less than 8.0 seconds approx 7.25-7.33 seconds from that clip

  21. Stephen J says:

    Scouting Report on George Kittle TE Iowa by PFF

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-scouting-report-george-kittle-te-iowa/?utm_content=bufferb5863&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=college

    I guess the biggest take away for me out of this was his size may limit his ability to block in-line at the next level. If that is what he is known for and it may limit him in the pro’s kind of defeats the purpose of drafting him for that reason. Then on top of that his durability issue also gives me pause. Though I do like his athletic ability.

  22. Lawrence says:

    It seems that center is widely perceived as the weak link in the Patriots OL. How about signing Nick Mangold? Tremendous leader (especially for the young OGs). Surrendered zero sacks last year. Would have a bit of a Brian Waters feel to it in terms of experience and need.

    • steve earle says:

      Not a bad idea and likely Bill has thought of it. Lots of things to consider from Bills point of view. What would Mangold be looking for in a contract, how, would it effect our cap, does Bill want a vet or a young developmental guy, much more? It might still happen, who knows? Or maybe sense Andrews was good enough last year he’s good enough this year? Anyway something to think about.

    • Todti says:

      I agree although I was looking more at the draft. It wouldn’t surprise me to see them draft interior OL. Andrews’ contract ends after this season and they still have Karras (for depth). Neither G nor C seems off the board to me as all of Thuney, Karras and Mason have experience at C.
      If, say, Pat Elflein slipped a bit in the draft and presented a value pick, I would totally take him. I think he would have similar issues as Andrews has in pass protection, at least initially, but is a better player in the running game and has higher upside down the road. All while being cheap for 4 years and a high-character guy.

      • Russell says:

        I agree with Todi, Elflein has a lot going for him, very intelligent , leadership, Value having dropped a bit in the draft.

  23. Stephen J says:

    One last Mockdraftable.com comparison that made me go Hmm today.

    I wondered today if there was someone similiar to Gilmore that was coming out in the draft this year. This is what I came across. Someone that was fairly compatible(80.6%) to him but actually out performed him was Kevin King. This made me think of two things. 1st if BB likes Gilmore that much would he draft someone who is similar to him and outperformed him and 2ndly why not just draft someone that tested better athletically and could be had for a cheaper cost at a younger age that you could personally develop

    • Mike Gerken says:

      The only answer i can give on your question Stephen would be that testing does not tell the whole story. They may be similar physically, but stylistically their games may be different. Gilmore has a proven record in the NFL and King is a projection.

      You bring up a valid point, but I am assuming that BB likes knowing what he is getting rather than relying on an unknown, or he is worried he would not have been around when the team picks.

  24. Stephen J says:

    Another Mockdraftable.com comparison I found interesting today was Fabian Moreau. He showed up in one of my mock drafts so I remember him having a good combine and remember them saying he transitioned from RB to CB but that was slowed in 2015 due to injury but this year he started to put some things together late in the season. Then when I looked at his Mockdratable I noticed he compared to Marshon Lattimore of Ohio State. Then when I compare the measurable’s and times I was surprised by how similiar they were and that Fabian had the slight better measurable’s and times than Marshon. Now if he is still putting things together and could become as good or even better than Marshon with time experience and coaching then he could be someone of interest. Now Marshon is mentioned as one of the top corners in this draft and if there is someone that highly compares to him and you can get him lower in the draft that sounds like value or something that BB would do if BB thought Fabian was possible of being as good or better than Marshon Lattimore. I know alot of if’s but it was something I was intrigued by and surprised by as well.

    • Todti says:

      From what I’ve read he lacks instincts, is too grabby and not very shifty. Not really what I would want in a CB but he seems like a good fit for the Seahawks.

      • Stephen J says:

        Thanks for sharing. As I read what you said though I wonder if he grabs because of that lack of experience and with the proper training and time that and other things would be corrected. I guess this is where the interviews and projections come into play.

  25. Stephen J says:

    Does Everybody remember Jonas Gray. Well Guess what I found out about him today. According to Mockdraftable.com the one RB/HB that is his 2nd most compatible RB/HB at 98.2% is Kareem Hunt. Now I am not sure if that bodes well or not for Kareem’s chances on being a Patriot but I find it interesting that a former Patriot RB was that compatible to him. I have to believe their is some type of interest either good or bad. I guess we will find out in just over a months time.

  26. EdgeX says:

    This is what is holding up the Malcolm Butler trade per M. Lombardi:

    FYI…All this M Butler trade talk is talk. Pats CANNOT engage in any trade talks with ANY team until he is under contract. Butler either signs his tender or signs the offer sheet from another team. It is against the rules to engage in trade talks for RFA. If Saints want Butler, it would be for their pick, 11th overall. You decide if that trade happens.

  27. Dan Sullivan says:

    Patriot Mock Draft and Predictions.
    Possible trades Jimmy G. gets traded to Cleveland for 2nd and 4th round picks.
    Malcolm Butler gets traded to Texans for a 2nd round pick.

    NFL Free Agent signings.
    Denard Robinson RB Jaguars
    Marcus Williams CB Jets

    Patriots Mock Draft.
    2 (From Cleveland) Antonio Garcia OT Troy
    2 (From Texans) Dawuane Smoot DE Illinois
    3 Davis Webb QB California
    3 Amar Darboh WR Michigan
    4 (From Cleveland) Ben Braden G Michigan
    4 Ben Gedeon ILB Michigan
    5 Josh Thornton CB Southern Utah
    5 Khalifani Muhammed RB California
    7 Sean Culkin TE Missouri
    7 Malik Smith SS San Diego St.

    Good Luck to Red Sox look for big year from Pablo Santoval as he is Boston Strong!

    • Matt says:

      So if the Pats trade Butler to the Texans for the 25 pick in 1st round who do you think they would draft?

    • steve earle says:

      Just a thought, why give Goodell a 4th? make it a 6th this year and a 3rd in 18, or something like that?

      • Matt says:

        Its a good idea but I don’t think the Pats have a choice. I really don’t think you can reason with this idiot Goodell.

        • steve earle says:

          I’m not being clear I guess. The league gets our highest 4th no matter what so just saying better a 6th this year and a 3rd next. Cleveland’s 4th is higher then Seattle’s why let Goodell take an even higher pick from us? Your right can’t negotiate with a dictator but maneuver around him.

  28. Ryan says:

    In terms of available talent, I think these are the positions that the Patriots should try to hit in the draft, in no particular order: WR, RB, CB, OT, OLB, and DE.
    Also, for days 1 and 2 only, I would put DT and S on that list. I’ll make a mock draft as soon as the Patriots figure out what’s happening with Butler.

  29. Stephen J says:

    Another guy that keeps coming up is CB Xavier Coleman of Portland State. He seems to be an ideal candidate that the Patriots target as an Undrafted Free Agent. Here is why. He is 5’11 190 lbs he completed 17 reps on the bench and touched 40 inches on the vertical jump and 10-foot-5 in the broad. His 40 time averaged 4.48s and he clocked 4.13s in the short shuttle and 6.86s in the three-cone. Thanks to DraftAnalyst.com for the ProDay numbers.
    And this from goviks.com
    He ranks fifth all-time in career pass breakups (27) at PSU… has led the Big Sky in pass breakups and passes defended two years in a row… leader in career tackles (123). He only played 6 games in High School so he is still learning but each year he has improved.
    He also is someone you can root for in the sense that he has comeback from Heart Surgery when he was in High School.

  30. Stephen J says:

    With Jeremy Cutrer weighing in at 168 at his Pro Day that made me think Who was the lightest player to ever play in the NFL well here is a link that breaks down the lightest players who have played in the NFL.

    https://www.sportingcharts.com/articles/nfl/who-is-the-lightest-player-in-the-nfl.aspx

  31. Russell says:

    What is Jerry Jones waiting for?? Butler nice contract long term , for a 1st pick #28 ?? You can draft a CB (cheaper) but do you know if he will ever be as good as Butler ??

  32. Stephen J says:

    D Martin I’d like to hear your $.02 on this.
    The Jets just signed Morris Claiborne for 1 yr 5 million.
    If Revis is so good that we need to sign him why would the Jets be bringing in Morris Claiborne who has been injury prone and hasn’t panned out. Is that saying something about Revis or the other CB’s on the team.

    Cheers

    • D. Martin says:

      I’m not very familiar with Claiborne as a player. I have heard his name and assume he is fairly decent. i’m thinking he played for either the Cowboys or the Broncos for some reason. But for me to google his stat line and write about him as though I am knowledgeable would be disingenuous. But that is certainly a team friendly dollar amount for a good corner!

      The question as to why the Jets would pay a man 6 million not to play for them is certainly a good one. It probably has something to do with Revis being arrested recently.

      Someone posted below that Revis stated he should move down to safety. He probably wouldn’t be the first great corner to make that transition, and I bet he would be one hell of a safety for our team. Perhaps a significant upgrade to Chung?

      • macspak says:

        As I see it the difference between Revis and Gilmore and Revis and Claiborne and Revis and others is that Revis is an older descending player (Not sure who tracked his rankings since 2013, maybe you, that clearly shows the decline) while Claiborne is a younger, and at least for one year, ascending player. Gilmore is younger and potentially an ascending player just coming into his prime years (mind you I still question his signing). IMO Butler is a younger actual ascending player. I would much rather take a chance on a younger possibly and actual ascending player than an older certainly descending player. Revis’ path is down. If he signs anywhere what will his ranking be next year? 92? And nobody knows if Revis can play safety whereas we know that Chung can. There also is a question as to what caused Revis’ precipitous decline. In part age, maybe in great part, but also in part because he was out of shape and overweight. That does not speak well of his professionalism and work ethic. I think he may also have burned some bridges in NY and NE.

        I wouldn’t want Revis. My eyes tell me Butler is a talented, hard nosed and gritty football player. I’ll take him on my team any day.

      • Stephen J says:

        Fair enough.
        I do agree with you that Chung seemed to take a step back this year and I’d be looking for someone to groom him. As far as Revis goes at safety I have my doubts concerns. The biggest being attitude now I say this from afar not knowing where he is at but here it goes. As someone suggested he showed up overweight if true that’s a red flag. If I remember correctly Rod Woodson who transitioned from corner to safety was like Brady in that he was meticulous about his body in order to play longer. To me showing up over weight doesn’t show that type of mentality. Two injuries he has sustained. Have they gotten to the point where he may want to play but can no longer do it to the level that is needed. Then one other thing would be he has his ring he has been paid is that fire to play still there or is it I’d like to keep playing because that is all I know. With all those things out there personally I would prefer just to draft a young Safety and groom him to be Chung’s replacement.

  33. D. Martin says:

    With all of this talk about cornerbacks, I wanted to reiterate a message I posted last week but never received any feedback on:

    Over the past four years Darelle Revis was rated the best CB in the league in 2013, 3rd best in 2014, 31st in 2015 and 64th last season. I think Stephon Gilmore finished last season ranked around the 62nd best CB in the league. I believe Revis would play with the Pats for about 6 Mil per. Seems like a chance to get a still very good cornerback (and likely a consensus opinion top 10 CB of all time) at a very steep discount. Plus, if we are willing to assume Gilmore’s play suffered from being on a poor team with poor coaching, why can’t we extend the same benefit of doubt to Revis? He has already helped us win one ring.

    As an aside, I still don’t see why Gilmore was given so much money when Butler had the second most interceptions/passes defensed over the last two seasons combined and he can’t get a deal. Heck, Gilmore might not even be as good as the less effective 2016 version of “Revis Island.”

    Trade Butler for a first and fourth round pick and bring in Revis for 6-7 Mil per. And if Garoppolo is still on the roster post draft, I am worried he’ll be starting for the Pats much sooner than we had hoped.

    Here is hoping Butler and Garoppolo are both traded for many draft picks this season!

    • Mike Gerken says:

      Why would the Patriots (or any team for that matter) pay Revis that type of money? The Jets are on the hook for any money earned under 6 million, so he most likely will get a one year, league minimum deal from some team.

      • D. Martin says:

        Well Mike, I did not and do not really understand how any of that works. However, if you are telling me they can get one of the greatest cornerbacks of all time, who performed AT LEAST equally as well as the cornerback we just paid 13 Million per year to, for under a million dollars, then shouldn’t the question really be why would the Patriots (or any team for that matter) not do so?

        • steve earle says:

          I don’t know what Mike will answer to you question but most of last year all the talk about Revis was if he should be tried at SAF. That doesn’t sound to me like a CB opperating at the level of Gilmore or Butler. Could be wrong but?????

        • Mike Gerken says:

          Revis was great for the Patriots two years ago. Last year, he looked disinterested and out of shape. He did not play well at all and at his age, maybe he is done. I don’t have the answer to that.
          If the Patriots kick the tires on him, I have no issue with that, but Revis has always been a me first type of player. He has also always been “the guy” and at this stage of his career, he just isn’t that anymore. How will he handle that role?
          For me, it is not just a money thing. I would need to feel real comfortable that he is okay as a role player.

    • Stephen J says:

      No thanks on Revis even he stated that he needs to move to Safety because he has slowed down.
      Not that I am sold on Gilmore but it is what it is and we have him now. I am willing to see if a change makes a difference plus his age allows for flexibility in terms of contract years if he works out.
      As far as Malcolm Butler I would rather have him stay than receive the 32nd pick plus a later pick which seems to be what is in the offering. I look at this way with the 32nd pick the Pats select Malcolm Butler not a bad deal even if it is for one more year only. With that said I am also prepared for Malcolm to be moved. It maybe in the teams best long term interest to move him. One to have players for 4-5 years from the draft pick(s) then two it saves cap space room for Jimmy G.
      Now Jimmy G he is not going anywhere he is their insurance policy. As Jerod Mayo said recently with Tom E Curran talking about taking out insurance policy to cover himself. Well the Pats are just covering themselves. You never know how much longer Tom can last sure he still looks great thank God, but one thing I did hear him say was that it is taking him longer to recover after games due to his age. Also if we do win another Super Bowl will he just call it quits after next year because the drive maybe there but the rigors on his body has taken a toll. Maybe maybe not but best be prepared for the worst case scenario.

      • Todti says:

        Completely agree on the Garoppolo debate. If they trade Garoppolo the Patriots will be one bad hit on Brady away from dropping out of SB contention. That’s why he’s apparently going nowhere this season. Belichick rather loses some future assets/trade value than putting the team’s next season on the line.

        • D. Martin says:

          I will care about the Patriots even after Brady retires. But I would gladly accept a few less than stellar years for Brady and Belichick to get one more ring together before one or both of them retire.

          I say load up for Bear with every weapon they can get their hands on for another charge. Because the sad fact is there is no reason to feel anything more than hopeful that Garoppolo is the caliber quarterback to continue Brady’s legacy. I mean the six quarters prior to a somewhat serious injury were impressive, but who thinks this team wins a Super Bowl in the years immediately following Brady’s departure? I mean, is he the GOAT or isn’t he?

        • Stephen J says:

          Brady is the GOAT but you don’t need The GOAT to win a Superbowl many teams have but you do want to put your best foot forward and right now Jimmy G is that. As far as loading up I think that is what they have been doing this off season so far pretty impressive.

        • Stephen J says:

          Let me rephrase that a little bit that didn’t come out quite right. Jimmy G is the best foot going forward after Tom Brady at the moment.

        • macspak says:

          I can’t help but smile when I read comments, here and elsewhere, that infer when Brady retires BB and the Patriots will simply give up. The year before last Denver won the SB with an end of the line Manning. In the “drought” years prior to their SB win over Seattle a number of teams won the SB w/o Brady at QB. I grew up in the 60’s watching some of the worst “Pro” football ever played by the Boston Patriots. I can’t imagine what it must be like to have grown up only in the BB/Brady era. What Brady retires, and for that matter when BB retires, the Patriots are not going to give up. In fact IMO BB is not currently loading up for BB’s last years but continuing to create the very continuity to ensure success while and after Brady retires. There was life before, there will be life after, teams w/o Brady win the SB, and BB and the Patriots will try, and hopefully succeed, in the post Brady years.

          Babe Parelli, Jim Nance, Houston Antwine, Billy Sullivan, Joe Kapp, Steve Grogan, Andy Johnson, Mack Herron etc. Those were the days when from year to year you didn’t even know where the Pats home games would be played.

    • Todti says:

      a) According to some reports, Revis played heavily overweight last season. That raises the question how someone who’s been professional in the past would let himself go like this.

      b) Gilmore had better seasons before 2016, so his ceiling is higher than that.

      c) Gilmore played under 4 different defensive coordinators (in 5 years).

      d) Gilmore has age and athleticism on his side, as stated by someone above.

      • D. Martin says:

        Revis was the best rated cornerback in 2013. Was Gilmore 1st or 2nd in 2014, because Revis was rated 3rd? Was he better than 31st in 2015? Because he was tied in the low 60’s ranking with Revis in 2016. Also, Revis went from the Jets to the Bucaneers to the Patriots to the Jets during this time frame, no?

        If you don’t want him fine. But don’t suggest he isn’t worth league minimum (according to Mike) or even a few million per, if you also maintain Gilmore is worth four times that. This isn’t a Gilmore or Revis scenario anyway. It is a Gilmore plus Butler vs a Gilmore plus Revis plus a 1st round and fourth round pick, in what is reportedly the deepest draft class at the cb/s positions in recent years.

        Just my $.02!

    • Russell says:

      Remember the most important thing about Gilmore;; BB has seen him twice a year for the last three years. BB knows how hard it was to scheme against Gilmore, and saw first hand Gilmore ‘s strengths & weakness. BB understands how to use what a player can do, to an advantage in his scheme.
      I remember BB saying, when they got WR- Welker from Miami, ” we could not cover the guy, and he made our defense try to adjust, the guy was a tough match-up for us.” So he traded, to get him on our team!

      • D. Martin says:

        If only he had thought to do such a thing with the “bubonic plague” that was Bernard Pollard many years ago, the team might have one or two more Lombardis! LOL!

  34. Stephen J says:

    My latest fanspeak mock draft using inside the pylon

    72: R3P8
    EDGE JOE MATHIS
    WASHINGTON
    96: R3P32
    S JOSH JONES
    NC STATE
    118: R4P11
    RB KAREEM HUNT
    TOLEDO
    163: R5P19
    LB ELIJAH LEE
    KANSAS STATE
    183: R5P39
    TE GEORGE KITTLE
    IOWA
    198: R6P14
    CB JACK TOCHO
    NC STATE
    239: R7P21
    WR AUSTIN CARR
    NORTHWESTERN

  35. Stephen J says:

    Another CB that I am looking at is Jeremy Cutrer of Middle Tennessee State. He is another tall lanky CB like Witherspoon. He is not afraid of tackling either. He had a nice game against Alabama as well. Today is his pro day looking to see his measurements and times. One big flag on him is he played in the 170’s but was said to have put on 12-15 lbs. Just saw on twitter from Tony Pauline that he ran a 4.49 at 6’2″ with the added bulk more specifics coming.

    • Stephen J says:

      Correction on Cutrer those times came from Luke Easterling not Tony Pauline.

      Tony Pauline however reported the MTSU and Tennessee State pro day was held in unison at the Tennessee State indoor facility. The weather in that area of Tennessee was bad Friday with a lot of rain, and MTSU does not have an indoor facility.
      I’ve been told by several people that the field turf at the indoor facility is terrible and players have been slipping all over the place

      Here is more Cutrer did a 32 inch vert and a 122 inch broad and another reported time of 4.54 from Rivals.com

  36. GM-In-Training says:

    These guys with outstanding traits and one glaring flaw are so frustrating to evaluate. He has a lot in common with Richard Sherman in listed traits. What the comparison to Sherman doesn’t show is that Sherman graduated 3rd in his class in high school and did quite well at Stanford, so he brought an outstanding ability to outsmart opponents, too.

    How much more bulk can Ahkello’s frame hold without costing him lateral agility I wonder?

    The Pats do seem to think this is the year to get longer at CB. I think that’s Butler’s biggest sin is that they couldn’t use him against tall #1 receivers last year, and he’s too expensive to be a slot guy.

    • Todti says:

      That’s what I was thinking. In my opinion there’s only 1 reason to not just replace Butler with Gilmore but also giving an “outsider” so much (guaranteed) money – the Patriots want to adjust, and improve, their defensive scheme. I think they kind of got frustrated by putting safety help over the big WRs while having 1-on-1 coverage on the quick, shifty WRs. That’s a bit of a waste on one side and a bit of a gamble on the other side of the field. So, by having a lock-down big CB (who’s also very athletic) on one side and safety help over the smaller, quicker WR on the other side would make their defense more effective.

      It’s not a knock on Butler and has nothing to do with any behind-the-scenes or off-field stuff, as sometimes has been implied. It’s just about maximising the results of the money you spend.

      • macspak says:

        The Gilmore signing has bothered and nagged at me since it was announced. Scheme change or whatever, the reason It nags at me is I just don’t think Gilmore is that good. I don’t see him as elite. I don’t see the production. It seems he has declined as the last few years have gone by and his production does not match his size or speed and quickness etc. One thing to pay proven commodity 414 M Revis back in 2014 an entire different story signing Gilmore to a long term deal with so much guaranteed.

        I’m not sure if Butler has any behind the scenes off field problems – sure doesn’t seem like it – and we have seen him grow and improve over the last three years. I just don’t get it. If you want Gilmore based upon physical skills believing you can turn him into an elite #1, so be it, but that does not preclude resigning Butler who appears to be more of a known and proven commodity than Gilmore. Sign the frigging guy to a reasonable extension, don’t trade him, keep both. We have for years lamented the lack of a top CB. Now we can have and afford two and we want to let one go??? And OK, we don’t have a 1 and a 2. Big deal. Aren’t Cooks and Butler worth that. And enough pipe dreams about getting #11 (sorry don’t mean to insult or be harsh) but that ain’t happening. If we do trade Butler I think maybe 32 but probably NO’s 2nd and 3rd and maybe a 4th or later from next year. I still wouldn’t trade him. His market is not #11 just because that is NO’s pick. And I’m not sure I trade a proven top CB at 27 yrs old for #11 anyway.

        • bumbabeef says:

          I like Gilmore and the potential he brings. Yes he hasn’t been consistent but I think a lot of that has to do with the safeties in Buffalo. Having Dmac and Harmon behind you will help a lot. Not to mention being coached by Bill instead of Rex. I would like to keep butler at least for another year but if we can get a 1st rounder back and draft somebody that can play slot and outside would be nice. I don’t trust Justin Coleman or Cyrus Jones.

      • MaineMan3 says:

        It seems to me that Butler’s strong points are …
        A) his elite ability to diagnose and anticipate plays and routes
        B) his very good run defense

        His negatives may be his size and his lack of speed and natural agility. I mean, he *seems* agile and fast enough in coverage most of the time, but I think that’s because he’s very good at guessing the route and cut and then making his move just before the receiver does.

        In any case, both Rowe and Gilmore are both more naturally agile as well as being bigger.

        So, it may be that Butler’s negatives limit his scheme versatility and, to some degree, the Pats’ realistic coverage options – especially against the playoff-caliber teams that are most likely to be able to create a mismatch on him.

        I’m not trying to justify the Pats “getting rid of him” (I don’t think they want to, actually). But it might be an explanation for why they may be offering him a contract that is less than what’s apparently acceptable to him (so far).

  37. Russell says:

    Check out Jack Tocho, N.C. state. I think he’s more of what the Patriots may be looking for at CB. 4th-5th round.

    • Stephen J says:

      I agree Russell. Tocho is a team captain and he usually covers the other teams top WR. I watched him against Clemson WR Mike Williams and ECU WR Zay Jones.It seems to me that when he goes against top competition it brings out the best in him because in those games he had the highest amount of tackles. He reminds me of a slightly better version of Logan Ryan when he came out. The frustrating thing in those games was yes he was beat but he was playing zone coverage and the other teams beat the zone coverage not so much the DB himself because he was exactly where he needed to be. Now don’t get me wrong he is not a top tier DB but he goes against top tier WR’s always seems to be in the right place competes for the ball and is a solid tackler as well. His height weight measurements and times are in line with what the Pats look for as well. So if all the top tier DB’s are off the board I would be looking his way.

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