The Patriots have tried to draft a smaller, disruptive type DT in the past with not much success, but Wormley may be the next guy in line to try and fill that role.
NEPD Staff Writer: Mike Gerken
As I was going through my green notebook with all my notes on this years prospects, I was struggling with who I wanted to write about next. Then I saw on the QB thread a few posts come up about Chris Wromley and went back to see what I had on him. I had scouted him over the summer but had not watched anything from this year, so I sat down and went through 4 of Michigan’s games I had on the DVR. Here is what I came away with after studying him a little closer.
Name: Chris Wormley, (#43)
School: Michigan (Sr.)
Height: 6’5″ (Senior Bowl)
Weight: 297 Lbs. (Senior Bowl)
Positives:
While Wormley played primarily at Defensive End in college, he has the frame and bulk to play on the inside as well, giving him versatility along the defensive line. He has a strong lower half to his body, allowing him to handle double teams and hold his ground. He shows strong, active hands and a good bull rush to create some pressure on the QB. He is a very smart, disciplined player. He does a nice job setting the edge and playing with good leverage. He is very disciplined and excellent against the run. Wormley seems to do the dirty work to allow his more athletically gifted teammates make the plays. He keeps his eyes up and knows where the ball is and rarely gets himself out of position. He is a hard worker and was a team captain for a team that was full of future NFL players. He plays the game with a high motor and wins with effort more than athletic ability.
Negatives:
Wormley probably played out of position at Michigan as he does not have the athletic skills to be a pass rusher at the next level. He is inconsistent with his first step and can be neutralized when he cannot win with power. He has a decent rip move, but outside of that, his pass rush moves are non existent. Wormley would go long stretches where he disappeared and had little to no impact for entire games.
Overall:
I think Wormley will benefit from a move inside. He has the size and the growth potential to handle the duties of a 3-tech in the NFL. While he may not impress you from an athletic standpoint, he is one of those guys you have on your team that does all the little things right and makes the players around him better because of it. He is known as a team leader and good locker room presence and would be an excellent addition to any locker room. He is very intelligent player that is disciplined in his assignments and wins with high effort. He has a chance to be one of those smaller Defensive Tackles who can be disruptive up the middle if he can be more consistent with his first step and develop some additional pass rush moves. I think a team like the Patriots will love his leadership off the field and his versatility on it. For me, I could see him going late Day 2/early Day 3.
I understand that the addition of many new rules throughout the years governing what is an acceptable tackling technique has altered the way in which the game is played. And I am not someone who would really care to see the safety position played in the way of Jack Tatum anyway. But it has occurred to me that in the ten years or so that I’ve been watching the NFL, I haven’t seen any safeties play the position like Steve Atwater, John Lynch or Ronnie Lott. With all of the talk about Jabrill Peppers being mocked to the Pats, I’ve begun to wonder if there is a player in this draft that can deliver legal, bone-jarring hits and really be an enforcer on our defense. Or a safety who can sometimes generate pressure in an opposing team’s backfield like Troy Polamalu or Adrian Wilson. Those are the type of secondary players I want to see drafted or traded for. Are there any such corners or safeties in this draft?
After seeing Michael Roberts I came across clips that Daniel Jeremiah posted on Adam Shaheen from 2016
1 Diving Catch https://twitter.com/movethesticks/status/833841112993263616
2 Big Man Runs Away from the Pack https://www.instagram.com/p/BQwPevuDA0s/
3 Leaping for the Ball https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/831354540284735488
Then today Daniel Jeremiah asked who will generate buzz at the combine and one GM said this
https://twitter.com/joshnorris/status/834436297485856770
Looking forward to seeing him at the combine
Roger Goodell suspect in stolen “Brady” jersey case. NFL to investigate own, with a Well’s report that states; “Roger Goodell was more likely than not” to have knowledge of the missing Brady Jersey.
Good one Russell though I must say that even after all this time I can’t laugh about any aspect of that fiasco and that lying hypocrite, Godell.
Tried to access your article but apparently work has footballnation.com blocked, which makes no sense. Will review tonight. My thoughts on the subject are captured below. What I am calling a rational ransom v an irrational ransom. I can see a rational ransom being paid and justifiably so.
try footballnation.net…… the site is making changes.
Geez the hype train for Jimmy G trade just keeps building.
I’m beginning to wonder if trading TWO first round picks – one in 2017 and one in 2018 is in the realm of possibility.
I mean look at what Jared Goff got 2 x 1st, 2 x 2nds, 2 x 3rds. Even from the small sample size, it’s obvious to me, that Garoppolo is playing at much higher level now than what Goff is at.
And if the Pat’s get a high pick – like say the Bears #3 overall – they could likely trade down a couple of times – imagine the haul they could get from doing that?!
HYPE!
Just did another “hype” Garoppolo article at footballnation check it out!
As more time goes by I think the value of what you’ve offered is too low.
From all indications the Pat’s aren’t going to trade Jimmy unless they are “blown away” with an offer. And to me that means at least a first round pick…and something else – either another second or maybe even a first. Look at what Jared Goff got.
I’m not saying this is reasonable. I’m saying that I think some time will fall in love with him and desperation will make a team offer something that blows the Pat’s away. Otherwise I think the Pat’s value Jimmy too much to let him go for less.
I agree with EdgeX, but from a GM’s point of view, I need to make my team better, and a QB is only a part of that.
I could see Chicago giving the #3 pick and maybe a 2nd in 2018.
I could see the 49ers giving the #2 pick, and maybe a 3d next year.
Cleveland giving the #12, #33 and a 2nd in 2018.
BB would very likely trade the #3 or #2 picks and move back and get picks IF he can get a trading partner. Carolina wants RB Fournette.
If the Pats 3 pick in the first why would they trade down from there. Why not make that pick then trade down with there pick at 32. Maybe trade 32 to the Browns for 33 then a pick in the 3rd and 4th rounds. The Browns have the money to spend and a couple good draft picks after the 1 st round.
You have to think long term.
If they trade down from #3 to say Carolina – it would probably cost Carolina’s first in 2017 and first in 2018. AND if they traded down from #8 it would probably cost a team a first in 2017 and first in 2018.
So they would end up with 3 first round picks in 2018.
What do you think they could do with that?
To me, 3 first round picks in 2018 is WAY more valuable than one pick, #3 overall, in 2017.
Two 1st’s, holy smoke that may be a 1st to far, but who knows? Don’t think I’ll be including that in any of my mocks any time soon. Wouldn’t that rub Goodell’s nose in it? Makes me smile just thinking of him beating his head against a wall.
Steve I think i miss wrote my coment. If the Pats trade Jimmy G to the bears for the 3rd pick in the first round and drafted someone. Then they traded pick 32 to the Browns for much better picks later in the draft wouldn’t that work out well for the Pats? Like if they picked up the Browns pick at 33 which is the first pick in the 2nd round.
Here is another favorable comparison for establishing Jimmy G’s value. Once upon a time a former 2nd round draft pick with limited playing experience (in his rookie year) was traded by the Atlanta Falcons to the Green Bay Packers. His name … Brett Favre.
So your saying Jimmy G could be the next Farve? Yea there is a 50/50 chance he could be that good. To early to tell. But if a team offers the Pats a good deal and get many more picks then I think they should trade him. If long moves on as well as Bennett. Then Seabass retires as well as Rob N then they could thin at spots.
If you have about 40-45 min there was a insightful and informative podcast by Josh Norris and Matt Harmon breaking down the wr position in this years draft
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/69434/325/wide-receiver-rankings
If you don’t have the time just visit the link above and it gives you an overview(rough outline not exact)(I used it as a refence/guideline) of what was discussed with additional receivers that weren’t talked about
If you are interested in Carlos Henderson, and Taywan Taylor you will be interested in what they say on the Podcast. I also learned more about why they don’t rank Cooper Kupp and Zay Jones as high as others which was helpful to me.
The 1st 3.5 min and the last 3 min were just backround and filler info about Matt Harmon fyi
There’s a lot in there. I agree with everything that they said about Taywan Taylor and Chris Godwin, and I almost agree with them on Carlos Henderson. I think Henderson appears a bit more explosive on tape because of the terrible competition that he’s facing, and I couldn’t see a reason to take him in the first round, especially given the fact that he’s only had one year of amazing production. He’s great, but I’d call him a second-round guy at best.
It’s interesting to hear them talk about Cooper Kupp. They say he failed to separate against weak competition during the season, but almost every report coming out of the senior bowl was about how he generated separation against strong competition (the best DB class in years). It was interesting to hear that Kupp ran most of his routes from the slot given his height, but I think we’re only going to hear more conflicted things about him as the process drags on.
A lot of people call Zay Jones “solid” and nothing more, but his highlight reel plays flash explosiveness. We’ll find out what the truth is at the combine.
They also said a lot of good stuff about Ryan Switzer and a fair amount of bad stuff about Chad Hansen, which I tend to agree with. Again, the combine is going to be telling for those two guys.
The one thing they didn’t say about Carlos Henderson that another site did ( http://lombardiave.com/2017/02/21/2017-nfl-draft-top-10-wide-receivers/6/ ) was Henderson does make some spectacular catches, but he also has several concentration drops. At times he turns upfield too quickly before securing the reception. That gives me some pause.
I vividly remember pundits saying that SF really reached for Jerry Rice; he played against inferior competition, really only had one big year and ran a slow 4.6 at the combine.
OTC had a great article a few months back on why Pat’s draft or sign FA’s at WR. They like the short passing game because of TB12 and the smaller, quicker guys have catch rates of 80% or better while the bigger guys going deeper have rates of 50-60%. Moving the chains is the story here, also Amani Toomer of all guys said that NE’s read option route running is difficult for veterans to pick up and almost impossible for rookies.
Actually i would be fine with Michael Roberts, Adam Shaheen or George Kittle anywhere between round 5-7.
This stat from Dane Brugler
#Toledo TE Michael Roberts in the RZ last season: 10 catches, 10 TDs
10 for 10???? Sounds like someone they only threw to down inside the 10. How can we evaluate this?
Here is his Profile Stat page
http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/552851/michael-roberts
Judging from total receptions he wasn’t just a RZ target he had a total of 45 receptions so if 10 of those were RZ that would leave him with 35 other receptions plus he had 7 longs over 20 yards
That makes the picture a little clearer. The way I read it at first was his RZ catches was his total catches.
Full measurables from the Shrine Game:
6’4 1/8″
259 lbs
33 5/8″ arms
Hand size 11 5/8″
Looks like he will be a late round pick.
Definite Y tight end.
Freak hand size.
Maybe Mike Gerken knows more about him since he’s been watching a lot of Toledo tape?
Another stat from Josh Liskiewitz of PFF
TE Michael Roberts gained a 1st down or TD on 55.4% of his targets this year
Watch him come in motion to block then finish it
https://twitter.com/jaredstanger/status/815399710160584705
Here is another clip from the East-West Shrine game nice catch and run for 1st down
https://twitter.com/jordanstrack/status/822923835120975877
From an article in the Palm Beach Post I found this quote interesting
Everyone always compares my game to—they call him my big brother—Martellus Bennett,” Roberts said. “That comes up very often.”
Nice pick up StephenJ, have to keep an eye on him.
Sounds like Mike Vrabel LOL
What do you guys think about Caleb Brantley? Lots of mock has him in the middle of the 2nd round . if BB trades down from 32nd or we get Clevland’s 50th pick via Jimmy G trade he would be a nice pick. He would be that inside passrusher what Easley shoud’ve been.
I have watched his highlights he does seem like a good DT strong and fast. Have you read anything about his health? I hope he is in better shape then Easley with his two bad knees.
Look for BB to make a move on free agent DT/E Jared Odrick 6’5″ 296 lbs. IF he will play for say 2.5 mil. for 1 year.
Not a big fan of Brantley, like Tomlinson MUCH more.
What is it you do not like about Brantley, Russell? Reports I read give him good grades and his films make him look good.
Brantley is a strait a head guy 1-3 tech. poor lateral movement, good run stopper, but not gap responsible, Never gets his hands up in the passing game. A junior who would have benifited from another year in College. Does not interview well. Pass rushing mentality.
Compared Brantley’s Tape to Tomlinson’s tape, Tomlinson is more disciplined (extra experience ), gap responsible, 3-5 tech., Led Collage football with blocked passes. (hand up)
I would be shocked if Brantley went ahead of Tomlinson!
@Russell- Oh yea, hadn’t really picked up on that. Thanks for the heads up.
I think Odrick is a long shot. He is, 1) under 300#, 2)expensive. Last year the Pats cleaned house of lighter DT. Odrick’s length is good, though. Coming off of an $8M/year contract, it doesn’t seem likely Odrick comes down to $2.5Million/year.
Sounds like he has a bunch of other interests outside of football and that’s why Coughlin jettisoned him. I doubt a guy like that would interest BB.
2 Under the radar prospects. I try to find prospects that aren’t well know but have flashed/produced that BB maybe interested in
1 TE Michael Roberts. His hands is what initially drew my attention then I find out Bob Quinn formerly with the Pats now Lions GM had an interview with him
http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2017/01/te_michael_roberts_has_huge_ha.html
2 LB Connor Harris for some reason reminds me of Tedy Bruschi has similar build just 2 inch difference in height and same weight. The height and coming from a small school are the 2 biggest draw backs that I see. Other than that he is intriguing.
http://herosports.com/news/connor-harris-lindenwood-tackle-record-d2-football-ncaa-college-football
I think Wormely is a mid 3rd-4th rounder at best. Only a solid rotational player.
I want the Pats to get Raekwon McMillian ILB. Using the #32 on him may be a bit early, but this guy is one of my favorite prospects for the Pats. He has the size, speed, instinct, and versatility ( I think he can play inside and outside LB) that BB loves. Maybe the Pats can trade back to about #40 and pick up a 4th. He is way too good for the Pats to pass up!
As far as LB’s go I usually 1st look for Zach Cunningham hoping that he falls to 32 if not then Raekwon McMillian is usually one of my other choices at LB. Another mid to later round prospect that the Pat’s have looked at is CARROLL PHILLIPS from Illinois
Cunningham has very good length, but being tall and thin, he may not be able to take on OLs like he did in college. For my next ILB would be Kendell Beckwith. He looks like a bit faster Brandon Spikes.
isnt Beckwidth a limited guy? exlusively a tumper?
He seems to get decent drops in zone, wouldn’t trust him in man coverage vs RBs, but for a 3rd round prospect, I think he is decent. I would like to see his combine numbers in a couple of weeks.
I was looking at Kendell Beckwith but became hesistant because he tore his ACL in Nov so unlikely to play the first year or very little
http://www.nola.com/lsu/index.ssf/2016/12/lsu_lb_kendell_beckwith_suffer.html
Day off today. Had time to divulge into more prospects I like. Also, I still think that Garoppolo will be dealt for a 2nd, and then some. It’s just not realistic that he goes for more.
I’m not saying I hope that, believe me, I’d love the 12th pick. Good options there. However, I just think that they’ll get a similar-esque valued player at 32/33 and get an extra asset.
I think that if they can walk away with any of these two, they’d be huge winners in terms of the draft. There will be really good value around 32/33. I think the corners are being overrated (outside of Lattimore and Jackson). Hopefully they’re overdrafted, as well as the RBs (although they are legit), and we can get a combo of these:
Solomon Thomas
Malik McDowell
OJ Howard
David Njoku
Caleb Brantley
Haason Reddick
John Ross
Adoree Jackson
Budda Baker
Takkarist McKinley
Jarrad Davis
Earlier this year I was making the same argument but as events have transpired I had to ask myself this: Jimmy G was a 2nd rd pick and has spent three years under a couple of the best NFL coaches skilled in developing QB’s and studying behind the most successful QB in NFL history. When starting the first two games he moved seamlessly in and made the right reads and completed the passes as though TB was under center. So tell me why JG isn’t years ahead of the current crop of QB’s in this draft. Why is he not at least worth the #20 pick Cleveland spent for Johnny Manziel or the #11 the Vikings spent on Christian Ponder? I couldn’t give myself any reason why not, so John can you?
I have no idea what will happen but I feel if Bill can’t get a 1st he should tell NFL GM’s to go suck lemons and keep drafting in the top half of NFL drafts.
In the days of yore it was automatic that incoming QB’s spent three years mentoring, learning and adjusting to the NFL game. Only then did they start. This was accepted custom and practice that many today forgot or never knew. The last best example of this was Rodgers sitting behind Favre for, three years. And don’t forget G Bay traded a #1 to Atlanta for Favre after he sat his entire rookie year. He has successful college tape as does JG. JG has more successful college tape than any of the incoming college QB’s and on top of that has successful pro tape.
I believe many NFL GM’s have a bias for the unknown probably because they think too highly of themselves and that only they can evaluate talent and are sure to be the one to pick the next great QB.
I also think many GM’s are vain, and stupid. Two #1’s, #2’s and #3’s for Goff. For Goff who appears to have bust written all over him. Irrationale. And that is only the most recent example.
JG has paid the dues a QB should pay. There should be great value to that; not devaluation. He has learned from the top coaching staff and QB of today, if not ever. If I were a GM I would honor that. I would watch the tape of the AZ and Miami games and decide JG is the guy and pay a ransom, a rationale ransom, for him. That could the 1, 2 or 3. Yet, I don’t expect that to happen. It could happen if Cleveland, SF and Chicago all decide to be rationale and determine JG is their guy and create competition for him. But, I suspect the highest we could get is the 12 with a bit more, which still is a good return.
Many of the pundits completely ignore JG college achievements and how highly regarded he was coming out. It only takes one GM to respect the combination of college and pro experience and achievement. If Goff and Wentz were worth what was paid for them……
EXACTLY. You can’t account for human nature, and everyone has their seperate value system. I would love for Bill to draft differently, and give up on some of his “reaches”. It drives me nuts. Jordan Richards? Tavon Wilson? Even Duron Harmon.
But he values depth, assests over high picks. He thinks he can get similar value in a lower slot. He friggen said it to Michael Holley, admitted it to the public (JULIO JONES). It’s a good system, actually. He’s won 5 Super Bowls with the Patriots. I can’t argue with that. It’s just his way, and it’s worked for him.
He sees the rest of league toss assets out the window. He values them. He goes agaisnt the grain.
Thank you macspak at least you and I are open to reasonable possibility’s.
what really will be the height of stupidity is if a team pays a similar irrationale ransom to move up to 1, 2 or 3 to draft Kizor, Watson or Trubisky instead of trading for JG. And how could Cleveland, SF or Chicago turn down such a cache?
But teams constantly do show their stupidity? They’ve proven that, time and time again, they would rather take a younger, inexperienced guy over a guy that’s been a back up for a while. They have. Don’t think that narrative will change.
Think your best case scenario, is JG for the 12th.
Plus, that’s a spot where Belichick has said that provides great value. Similar top 5/10 talent on a cheaper rookie-scale. I’m not imagining this. These are things he’s said. Why would you bet against constant history, and BB consistent, proven method?
NE QB’s have not had the same success after they have left (Cassel, Hoyer). Also, QB’s get overdrafted. I think Garoppolo is way more talented that Kizer, Trubinsky, but I don’t think that SF, Cleveland, Chicago, will justify trading a top 5 pick for him (especially when he is about to get more expensive).
So, you trade him for the 2nd overall. He has a terrible year, because your team will be bad, and he’ll need time to adjust. After that he’ll need an extenstion. You’ll pay him alot, and then you’ll have a couple more years of being crappy. You think that will go over well with the fan base? Owner? Even management on different levels?
I think people can stomach having losing years under a developing, cheaper QB, especially one you taken 2nd overall. You trade for a QB that’s been in the league for a few years, you expect to win (Matt Flynn).
I think bad teams make bad decisions and, while trading for Jimmy G. might be a better decision than taking Deshone Kizer, I think teams like grooming “their guy”. Not someone else’s. Look what happened to Matt Flynn. They signed him to a big deal, and then they drafted a guy in the 3rd round that was better. I think teams see the trends with Flynn, Cassel, Bradford, whoever, and are just hesistant to give up alot for someone else’s guy.
I think someone should trade for Jimmy G. I do. I’d trade a mid-round first pick for him. However, it’s more just than your value, or my value. It’s about another teams value system, Bill’s value system (who likes more assests over high picks), and money.
Hell, someone might say I’ll trade Jimmy for the 2nd overall pick, while another might say I’ll trade you two 2nd’s and a 3rd. Bill is going to go for the ladder. 100 percent. He understands the improtance of depth. Just trying to work within reality, and history.
Once again we have the misunderstanding that a #12 must be used to pick someone at #12 but can’t be traded down at least twice ending up still with an additional 1st plus maybe three extra mid or later round picks. It’s flexibility and everyone knows how Bill likes flexibility. So why keep arguing that is not at least possible Bill would make such a trade?
I think with certainty BB would trade down the 1, 2 or 3. 12 could be a 50/50 proposition. Unless he really loved somebody I suspect he would trade down. He does love his assets.
John, what you say is true and is something I left out. It is easier/safer to trade a ransom and draft your own. The fans and owner will grant you that 2 to 3 year pass. It takes a GM secure in himself, his judgment and his job to give up a 1 and more for the likes of JG or Favre. It would take BB’s twin working under Kraft’s twin and then to survive he would have to be right.
BB cut Kosar and if given the chance likely would have turned that franchise around. Josh McDaniel traded or let go of Cutler, which actually was the right decision. (Think how hard those decisions really were for brand new coaches) He also was let go before he was proven right or wrong or earned the trust of the fans and owner. He also was very young. BB and Josh both learned from mistakes, introspection and brains.
I think it is more conviction, strength of personality and balls than value or a value system.
If you or I were hired today to replace BB and we believed JG was a sure fire HOF and Brady’s end was imminent, contrary to the owner’s and fan’s beliefs, would we dare cut or trade Brady and go with JG?????? If we were convinced of our judgment and had balls – yes. If not???????
I think that you will find as more time goes by and NFL teams get a closer look at this crop of QB’s and what’s available in free agency that his value will go up.
Heck – there’s a lot of talk circulating in the media that Cleveland should now trade the #1 overall pick for Jimmy G.
That’s all they were talking about on NFL network this morning on GMFB was that Cleveland SHOULD trade the 1st overall pick for Jimmy G.
I know it sounds crazy, and I’m NOT saying he’s going for the first overall pick……..but in the end I think the Pat’s are going to get a lot more than most people would think reasonable for him.
I like Chris Wormley but most of the mocks I have done have him going in the middle of round 2 with about 15% of the time falling to our 2nd round pick. He maybe graded at the end of 2 to 3rd round but with the lack of talent and depth at DL it looks like he will be drafted higher than that.
My mock draft: trade jimmy G to browns for the 1 pick (12) and 3 round (2018):
1:Derek Barnett DE Tennessee
1:Jabrill Peppers S Michigan
2:Chris Wormley DT/DE Michigan
3:Fabian Moreau CB UCLA
3:Samaje Perine RB Oklahoma
4:Carlos Henderson*, WR, Louisiana Tech
5:Anthony Walker ILB/OLB Northwestern
6:Dan Skipper OT Arkansas
7:Greg Ward Jr. QB/WR Houston
The Jags released DE Jared Odrick age 29, 6’5″ 295 lbs. This could be a guy BB may grab, if he can get him cheap.
My Mock Draft (3 rounds, plus Garroppolo trade)
I used Fanspeak, with CBS rankings.
Jimmy G. to the Cleveland Browns for their 2nd round pick in this years draft, and their 3rd round pick in next years draft.
32.) Malik McDowell DL
33.) Takkarist McKinley EDGE
64.) Ethan Pocic OL
96.) Tyus Bowser LB/EDGE
103.) Taywan Taylor WR
First 3 picks are 5 star other two 3 1/2 but I like it.
thanks Mike for picking up on my comments on Wormley and posting the Report on him.
I liked him, would fit good to the Pats. Not a fancy Player but as you have written, does all the smalls things right + good character overall, BB loves such profiles.
As of right now, these are my top 10 favorite safeties of this draft class:
1. Malik Hooker (Ed Reed 2.0)
2. Jamal Adams (Sean Taylor-esque)
3. Desmond King (not sure has the build to play CB – better fit at S – still very talented)
4. Obi Melifonwu (Earl Thomas-esque)
5. Eddie Jackson (Devin McCourty 2.0)
6. Jabrill Peppers (Needs to go to right team that can develop him)
7. Marcus Williams (definite play maker – need to watch more of him)
8. Budda Baker (I worry about his small frame – at times looks like Honey Badger)
9. John Johnson (Can play S and all 3 CB positions)
10. Tony Conner (Hard hitter – was talk of being 1st rd talent but is getting lost in draft – not sure has put complete game together – needs more time to develop)
I’ve noticed a good many mocks are assigning us SAF Peppers. Not sure he would give us the strongest overall draft. How do you see it?
The he could fit in our system. He definitely has talent. And the Patriot’s usually bring the best out in players. I see him as a SS that that could back up Chung. He’s obviously going to take time to develop.
I’m not sure Peppers would be the best pick at 32. But that’s another whole problem – we don’t know how the other 31 teams will pick ahead of them, and who’s left at that point.
If it were up to the Patriot’s I bet they would want to draft a CB or DE with the 32 pick in ideal circumstances.
I agree with EDGEX, Peppers does seem like a Patriot Choice. Limited experience (sophomore) is the leading factor in my book.
Obi Melifonwu is nothing like Earl Thomas, at all. Thomas was/is a missile. He is instinctual, has great speed (both game speed and track speed), is quick to diagnose, and takes efficient paths to the ball. The knock on Thomas coming out was his stature (small).
Melifonwu is the opposite. He’s really big, and imposing, and long-limbed, and will test well (in terms of speed). He lacks instincts, and is slow to diagnose, and struggles to flip hips/change directions. He does have good range, and good ball-skills though.
Not on par with Thomas, and I definitely wouldn’t consider Eddie Jackson on par with McCourty (let alone an upgrade).
If you wanted to compare any player to Thomas it’d be Budda Baker.
Budda Baker is going to be a pro-bowler in this league, as well as Jamal Adams. Both of those guys have the qualities you look for in elite safeties. Malik Hooker probably will be, it may take a bit though.
about to say that, i d say he´s more related to Iloka instead.
Sorry getting my Seattle players mixed up – I meant Obi Melifonwu is built like Kam Chancellor.
Budda Baker’s build more closely resembles the Honey Badger. But there’s no guarantee he will be able to reach the same level as him. Players with 180 lbs builds that play physical don’t usually hold up well long term. And that’s what I worry about. Still like the player tho.
Here is the break down for Compensatory free agents 2016; All 5 yr. contracts except where noted.
Osweiler– $18 mil. per year Denver
Vernon —$ 17 mil per year Miami
Norman –$15 mil. per year Carolina
Jackson—$14.2 mil. per year Denver
Jenkins —$12.5 mil. per year L.A. Rams
Osemele—$ 11.6 mil. per year, Baltimore
Okung —–$ 10.6 mil. per year Seattle
Sean Smith $ 9.5 mil. per year K. C. (4 yr. contract)
Irvin ——-$ 9.2 mil. per year Seattle (4 yr. contract)
Harrison—$ 9.2 mil. per year N.Y.Jets
Mack ——$9 mil. per year Cleveland
Beachum—$9 mil. per year, Pittsburgh
There is NO pattern to how the choices are awarded, but it seems longer contracts get more priority. Top ten should be awarded a pick.
AND all-pro status…..
What are your conclusions from this as it may effect the Pat’s?
This is tuff to call, as the league only awards 32 comp. picks, and 4 is the most any team can get. The factors in the past that contribute to awarding picks was;
Annual contract salary
Playing time
All-pro & postseason status
Team loss to gain of free agents signed
Denver will get two 3d’s very likely.
Miami, Carolina, Baltimore, Seattle, Rams, Cleveland are likely
K.C. , Pittsburgh, (2nd) Seattle, Jets, these may fall into the 4th round.
So Cleveland loss, of Mack All-pro, postseason, heavy playing time would seem to push him into the 3d round. I see it has 70% chance, but we will see in early March.
Mack played more than 90% of Atlanta’s offensive snaps and achieved All Pro status thus hitting some of the key criteria. but when it comes to secret formulas, the NFL and the Patriots……………
It’s interesting that projections have Denver getting two 3rds; one for Osweiller and the other Malik Jackson. Osweiller did not hit the 90% mark and of course earned no post season honors. Not sure about Jackson’s playing time (btw – a player I really like) but I don’t think he earned post season honors. So, both warranting a 3rd do so solely based upon contract size.
BTW – I read Reuter’s recent 4 round mock and he had Cleveland getting a 4th round Comp for Mack and not a 3rd. I know from earlier readings that a 3rd was no guarantee but the earlier report came from an author who is known for determining comp values and picks and he did have it as a 3rd. A 4th is really going to throw off some of these mocks. We won’t know for sure for a while as to if it is a 3rd or 4th but there were a number of larger FA contracts than what Mack signed for.
Cleveland’s Alex Mack (all-pro) signed a $45 mil. contract 9th among 2016 free agents. So it is VERY likely Cleveland gets a 3d comp. pick for him. I expect 10 3d round compensatory picks awarded, Two to Denver, Miami, Carolina, Baltimore, Tennessee, Cleveland (New England) , Kansas city, Seattle, and one more. N.Y. Jets? Rams?
IF Cleveland does not get one (shocking), Patriots get Cleveland’s 4th in 2018.
OK here is my TRADE Mock;
Patriots trade Garroppolo & 3d (#96)- to the Bears, for their, 2nd (#36), 3d (#67) & 2nd in 2018.
Patriots trade 1st pick (#32) – to Detroit, their 2nd (#53) & 3d in 2018.
Draft;
Bear’s …..2nd – S Eddie Jackson
Detroit’s.. 2nd – CB Fabian Moreau
Patriots …2nd – DL Chris Wormley
Bear’s …..3d – OT Will Holden
Comp. Clev. 3d -LB Jammie Gilbert
Patriots …..4th – LB Darius English
Denver’s ….5th – DE Marquavius Lewis
Comp. Hicks. 6th- WR Jordon Westerkamp
Detroit’s ……7th – TE Scott Orndoff
I think these are much more realistic versions of what to expect for JG in trade value.
Still think/hope/believe we spend a high pick on a TE as I doubt Bennett stays and we need better than what we have to compliment Gronk.
I especially like the trading into next year as that is classic BB.
Yes, BB will some where pick-up a 3d round pick, as the Patriots lost theirs in the CB Rowe deal.
With TE Housler, & TE Lengel on the roster as possible guy’s I don’t see BB drafting a TE early, maybe late.
We also have TE Williams coming off a knee injury.
The Rowe trade was for a 2018 4th round pick that can become a 2018 3rd round pick based on playing time.
Yes Mike in 2016 Rowe did not play 50% of the snaps. IF he does NOT play 50% of the snaps in 2018, then the Pick is the Patriots 4th, if he does, then the Patriots 3d 2018.
If Ryan leaves and Rowe is the Number 2 CB, it’s safe to say, barring injury, he plays 50% of the snaps.
Patriots Mock Draft and Predictions. 5.0
Jimmy G. gets traded to Browns for 2nd and 3rd round draft choices.
Patriot free agents signed.
James Devlin
Logan Ryan
LeGarrette Blount
Martellus Bennett
NFL Free Agents signed
Bennie Logan DT Eagles
Zach Brown ILB Bills
Bradley McDougald S Tampa Bay
Mock Draft
1 Derek Barnett DE Tennessee
2 Possibly From Browns Raekwon McMillian ILB Ohio State
2 Jeremy McNichols RB Boise St.
3 Possibly From Browns Cordrea Tankersley CB Clemson
3 Dawuane Smoot DE Illinois
4 Sefo Liufau QB Colorado
5 Jalen Robinette WR Air Force
7 Cole Hikutini TE Louisville
I think these are much more realistic versions of what to expect for JG in trade value.
Still think/hope/believe we spend a high pick on a TE as I doubt Bennett stays and we need better than what we have to compliment Gronk.
MOCK 2.0
As always, I welcome any feedback you guys might have about the players I’ve selected, as well as recommendations for replacements. Thanks guys.
Trade Jimmy Garoppolo to Bears for their 1st and 3rd round picks. Then Trade the No. 3 overall pick to Carolina for their 1st and 2nd round picks.
Round 1, Pick 8: O. J. Howard TE – Alabama
Round 1, Pick 32: Tim Hightower OLB – Alabama
Round 2, Pick 40: Jarrad Davis ILB – Florida
Round 2, Pick 64: Obi Melifonwu SS – Connecticut
Round 3, Pick 67: Cameron Sutton CB – Tennessee
Round 3, Pick 96: Pat Elflein C – Ohio State
Round 4, Pick 135: D’Onta Foreman RB – Texas
Round 5, Pick 177: Zane Gonzalez K – Arizona State
Round 6, Pick 218: Adam Shaheen TE – Ashland
Round 7, Pick 255: Brendan Langley CB/WR – Lamar
Tim Hightower’s off the field issues scare the crap out of me – and wouldn’t be surprised if he’s already off the Pat’s board. Not sure who to replace him with.
Do you like the other changes then Edge? I mean, is this a better draft for the team than the first version in your opinion? I will reconsider Tim Williams. (I accidentally said Tim Hightower, lol)
lol oops now you have me misspelling his name too – ya I meant Tim Williams.
Rest of the draft looks good to me besides the Tim Williams pick.
Very ambitious trades scenarios be interesting to see how close you come. Anyway I’d swap out Hightower (flags) for a DE/DT (Charles Harris, Solomon Thomas) kind of prospect. OC Elflein mixed reviews. Some not high on him, some good games some not. OC is tough to project in mid rounds if there was a sure OC this draft I’d guess it’s Ethan Pocic but he’s mocked earlier. Foreman would be good if his fumbling can be corrected but it’s worrisome. Overall good mock.
Opps , me too. Inverting Hightower for Williams.
If Malik Hooker (S) fell to 32 because of his torn labrum and hernia would you still take him. Had surgery Feb 1.
Also Taco Charlton (Edge) and DAVID NJOKU (TE) are sitting there at 32 who would you choose/select
If I were the Patriots? No way I’d pass on him.
Even with the surgery have a really, really, really hard time seeing him fall out of the top 10.
I meant in reference to Malik Hooker.
The other two not so sure about.
I would guess no on Hooker (not enough experience ) I think the Patriots like Eddie Jackson at S/special teams.
No on Charlton, & Njoku not enough experience, Charlton not great with Containment, or gap control. Good pass rusher however.
I really like Taco Charlton, he has the size and while he needs to get stronger against the run, I think he has more bust and natural pass rush ability than say Chandler Jones. Sadly, I think as the process goes on, Charlton will rise too far even to think about a trade up from 32.
Hey Mike what do you think of all the mocks slotting Jabril Peppers to NE with their first? I watched one Michigan game on TV and he was all over the field and returned punts too.
I like Peppers, but I am holding off judgement until I get some accurate measurements on him. If he comes in at less than 210 like I have heard he might, that scares me. I think his play style fits best at LB, but size may require him to play Safety. Now, could he play that Chung type role and be successful, sure. I think I would want to hit other needs first however.
Yeah, but if he comes in at like 208…a year in the Patriot’s program he should be able to put on 10 lbs. And that’s the thing with this guy you have to have a plan to develop him. Could be a phenomenal back up to Chung who isn’t getting any younger.
I’ve been looking at late round/undrafted DT position and feeling very uninspired. There are a couple of that I would say ok take a flyer and see what works out then I thought what about Free Agent signings that didn’t work out for other teams last year. For example Justin Zimmer, DT, Ferris State who was signed by the Bills and had a good summer but was released could he be picked up say signed to a futures contract or be brought into camp when they start up. I would take him over the guys that I see this year.
Agree late Rd DT’s not inspiring but day two has decent prospects such as: Jaleen Johnson, Montavious Adams, Jarron Jones, Charles Walker, Davon Godchaux, Carlos Watkins, and Vincent Taylor. The combine should help give us an idea of where that should be stacked and who might be a good fit. 10 days until combine starts.
I am going to need some convincing on Jaleel Johnson. I watched a lot of him and came away underwhelmed. I would like to know what you see that maybe I am not.
What’s your thoughts on Collins Bevins, 6’5″ 286 lbs. 5.06 40yd Northwest Missouri state? Very limited tape, 6th-7th round guy?
Okay scratch Johnson, he is just in with the cluster of DT’s ranked in 2nd-3rd. Personally I like what I see and read about Montavious Adams and Carlos Watkins but I’m open to some others too.
Here is last year’s 2015 highlights from Collins Bevens
http://www.hudl.com/video/3/571255/5721dc0d90eead5d90e524ce
Here is another one of Collin Bevens
http://www.hudl.com/video/3/571255/57488c493b32e5215818a023
The one thing I like about Brevens is that he has a nice array of pass rush moves for someone playing at a lower level. He shows a good rip, swim, punch, and spin. He play a little high and isn’t overly smooth laterally. Borderline draftable grade, but this is off limited tape as you said.
The fastest prospect to run the 40 yd. at this Combine will be (I’m projecting) Brendan Langley CB from, Lamar. Look for 4.32-4.34 !!
His numbers are pretty good as are his stats but why does Draft Scout have him slotted as a 7th rd pick? Some information must be missing.
because Lamar is a small program, not getting much love.
Okay yea, but is it that obscure that no one seems to have even noticed this guy? (By that I mean Draft Scout and major scouting groups) But then with so little to go on and low level of competition where would you think a realistic draft pick would be? This is out of my pay grade.
LOL! Geez Russell another 7th guy most of us never heard of. You gotta give us a break and more info on these guys. Heck they sound really interesting but there is so little info out there on them it’s frustrating. Are they going to rise after the combine or do you think they would be worth a low round pick if they don’t?
CB Langley maybe the fastest prospect at the Combine! He has skills, plays better with off coverage, moves turns well, relays on “make-up speed” (which he has 4.30 guy) Tackling in the run game about avg. Coming from a small school, limited tape, and level of competition.
With Matthew Slater likely in the last year of his deal, BB may want a fast special teams prospect with speed, much like free agent Jonathan Jones last year.
Likely a 6th-7th round guy.
Lots of talk about keeping Garoppolo.
1st. – If you keep him he will need a new contract (friendly) $7.5 mil. for 3 years & make him a restricted free agent after the 3d year.
2nd- Practice reps will be split between Garoppol and Brissett, limiting Brissett’s growth .
3d – By resigning Garoppolo and keeping Brissett you carry three QB’s, limiting you roster in other areas.
4th – by resigning Garoppolo you use money (cap space) you could use some where else.
5 – If you don’t resign Garoppolo, you (could) lose him as a free agent in 2018, only getting a 2019 3d round compensatory pick for him.
6th- You could (but why would you) place the tag on Garoppolo in 2018.
7th- TRADING Garoppolo now while the market is high, and getting draft choices this year and next year would be the best for the team.
8th NO TRADE to N.Y. Jets, or Buffalo. Chicago #1, 49ers #2, Cleveland #3, Arizona #4.
The talk about not trading him is just a smokescreen – they are trying to increase his trade value by saying he’s not on the market. Remember the Pat’s know how to evaluate talent better than most teams and have had years to plan this charade out.
that’s what I’m thinking
The team has been planning this out for the past few years, that’s why they drafted Brissett. I think they really liked/like Brissett a lot and they may now be in the biz of drafting QB’s, developing them and trading them for bigger assets like a factory. At some point they will hold onto one or more of them when Brady retires.
For now, it’s who’s going to come up with the biggest enticement to move him before the draft and/or season starts.
A day after all these reports started circulating online that “the Patriot’s are not interested in trading Jimmy G” ESPN puts out an article stating that “trading the 1st overall pick is not that crazy for Jimmy G”.
LOL!
Order up!
I’ll take a Myles Garrett please!
Thank you very much Browns!
They are right, it’s not crazy talk, it’s bat $hit crazy talk! I know desperation is a stinky cologne but c’mon!
Hell will freeze over before Cleveland gives OR BB takes the 1st over-all pick. The Contract alone would be about $28.2 mil. for 4 years.
It may be me, but NOT a fan of Miles Garrett,…. . . . . .
Cleveland would be better using the #1 to pick the best player or trade down to obtain more capital. They can dangle #12 and/or some of the capital from trading #1 to make a serious offer for JG. They are loaded with multiple high draft picks and have some players that would be attractive – Bitonio, Barnidge and a DT or two whose names slip me right now. Some combination likely would be better than any other team needing a QB could offer.
If BB was able to pry the #1 -no friggin way – I see him trading that to obtain more capital rather than using it an incurring that type of contract. #12 is a toss up on keeping or trading.
Obviously this is all a hypothetical situation….but if given the chance what’s not to like about Myles Garrett? I see a healthier and possibly higher ceiling / definitely higher floor version of Jadeveon Clowney – and look what he did to the Pat’s during the Texans playoff game. Imagine having a better version of that on our defense!
Garrett looks like a great prospect, but it’s his personality, and off the field work ethic. He came out saying; ” he didn’t want to play in a cold climate in the nfl”, and stuff Like: Dallas needed to draft me and trade Romo and picks to move up and get me.
This along with his lack of off season work, does not sound like the “Patriot way”.
He clearly (to me anyway) relies on his very good abilities, to be an outstanding pass rusher, but has a hard time putting in the work to be a good player. He is not as good with containment , or gap control, in the run game.
If I’m Cleveland I trade the pick to Jacksonville, for picks and let them have him.
I have payed zero attention to Myles Garrett because there was no way he was going to be in the Pat’s picture. Now reading the things Russell reports he has been saying I wouldn’t want him. He sounds like the kind of self absorbed jerk that will be nothing but a problem to any team that does draft him.
Re Russell: Ok fair enough
Completely unrelated, but this seems like it could be a very good year to grab a wide receiver in the later rounds. 58 receivers were invited to the combined, compared to 43 last year, and the overall number of players invited actually dropped from 332 to 330. While there are definite questions with the receivers near the top, the third day of the draft looks like a great spot to take a flier on a guy, considering Amendola’s potential departure and the off-field problems with Floyd.
Guys I love but probably won’t fall to us in the fourth: Zay Jones, Taywan Taylor, Chris Godwin, Malachi Dupre, and Carlos Henderson. I’d say trade up in the fourth, but I’m not sure if that would cause us to lose the pick due to Deflategate.
Fourth-rounders: Josh Reynolds, Ardarius Stewart, KD Cannon.
Fifth-rounders: Josh Malone, Kenny Golladay, Fred Ross.
Sixth-rounders: Amba Etta-Tawo, Keevan Lucas, Jamari Staples.
Seventh-rounders: Noel Thomas (from Norwalk, CT and went to UCONN), Ishmael Zamora, and Austin Carr.
I keep thinking that all of these won’t be able when we pick, but there are just too many late-round value guys for them all to slip by us. Like I said, the top half of this draft is average for WRs but the bottom half seems to be amazing.
I like Cooper Kupp and Ryan Switzer (who you should add to the list). But have a hard time with other pressing needs seeing them drafting a WR – if there are so many going into the draft then the Pat’s could get one undrafted even.
Also I was never sold on Michael Floyd – he still has a lot to prove. Amendola on the other hand I think should stay – but obviously that contract needs to be re-worked.
I can’t see Kupp falling out of the second-round pick, and there’s a distinct possibility that the attention surrounding Switzer makes him a third-round pick. I’m not comfortable spending such a high pick on a receiver this year, but I’d have no problems taking Switzer if he falls to us in the fourth. Given the depth of the WR position and the other slot options available, I probably wouldn’t trade up for him.
A prospect I like a lot is Slot guy /WR Jordon Westerkamp, Nebraska . He suffer a knee injury late, and may not be 100% for training camp. Great prospect, for a not so big passing program, and late 6th, 7th round pick. Great entangables guy!!
WR is not as high a need as in the past but the position is getting long in the tooth. I don’t see spending high draft capital on a WR but I can’t imagine we don’t address it somehow, someway.
What do you guys think of RFA Thielen from MN? I love him and as much as I would love to have Amendola back signing Thielen would be a classic long term well planned signing giving us 4 to 5 years at the slot receiver rather than 1.
Did you guys notice how many catches, all clutch, DA had in the 4Q and OT in the SB – amazing?
Yeah that’s why they need to re-work Amendola’s contract. I bet both sides are willing to work something out too.
Do any of you guys think Bill picks up Mario Williams for peanuts? He was just released by Dolphins.
unlikely. Watch the Raiders , or the Colts make a move on him.
Russell spotted Wormley early on and was easy to see why. Mike gives a very good breakdown of Chris and I for one would be fine id he came to us in the 2nd rd.
What the heck is a NASCAR pkg? Sounds like a smaller faster term, is that right guys?
Yes, it’s a term first used by the NYG’s around the 07 season and what they ran against the Patriots in that dreadful Super Bowl to ruin the perfect season. It is a defensive front of smaller, but quicker players at DT. The Patriots drafted Dominique Easley a few years back to be that disruptive interior presence but obviously that didn’t work out for various reasons, talent not being one of them.
Too many good prospects in this year’s draft not enough time to cover them all 🙁
I’m still learning about new players on a weekly basis it seems (already knew about Wormley tho). Can’t wait for the combine as undoubtedly more players will come to light.
I haven’t started on Safety at all (mainly because I hate trying to scout them, and I am not very good at it) but the one position that I have been disappointed in so far is DT. Luckily, I don’t think it is a huge need for the Patriots because they have 2 young guys who have played pretty well there, but I was looking to add some young depth to that rotation and have not found my guy just yet.
Wormley has been the closest so far, but his role would be a little different than what I was originally looking to find. I will keep searching and writing.
Also, if any of you have specific requests on players, please let me know on here or on twitter and I will write them up. I am going through my recheck/rewatch on CB’s right now, so I will be hitting that position shortly.
Wouldn’t Jarrad Davis OLB/ILB fit that “Nascar” package mold perfectly, or is that only a term used in referencing defensive linemen?
Wormley is number two on my Patriots board. DT Dalvin Tomlinson is my number one guy.
It may shock everyone, But I think BB may take S Eddie Jackson with the Patriots first pick.
If his 40 time is under 4.5, and 3 cone is under 6.95, I believe #32 takes him.
His tape screams Patriot prospect!!
The Pats have been looking for a second safety ever since the Cardinals snagged Bucannon ahead of them, and I don’t think that Chung is the answer. I certainly wouldn’t object to a playmaker on D in the first.
Really? About the DT’s…quite a few I like – most specifically Montravius Adams – he has some issues but I think they are fixable through coaching. (Also like Carlos Watkins and Jaleel Johnson). All are rotational players though, this isn’t a draft class for picking up many stud DT’s. And that’s what the Patriot’s really need at DT, I feel, is more depth.
If I remember correctly you weren’t thrilled with the Vincent Valentine pick last year and look how that panned out – gotta give these DT’s time learning the Patriot way!
As for CB’s Chidobe Awuzie, Tre’Davious White, Cameron Sutton, and John Johnson I’d wouldn’t mind scouting reports of – maybe start with John Johnson (who I hear can play CB and S).
Pick your poison though! As I wouldn’t mind a scouting report on any one of these guys mentioned above.
I came across a new prospect for me today while doing my fanspeak mock draft and actually did this mock with you in mind EdgeX specifically the S position
http://fanspeak.com/ontheclock/draft.php?d=kdwuyq
The new prospect for me is a possible Alan Branch replacement Jarron Jones of ND
Here is a good short write up http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/nfl-draft-stock-report-talent-not-in-doubt-for-notre-dames-jarron-jones/
What caught me is his size 6-5, 315 then two things Dane Brugler said in the article. 1 There is no questioning his rare athleticism and skills for a man that size. 2 Jones has first-round ability if he shows more consistency
Where is he projected to go in the draft?
As of right now I am seeing 4-5th round
Nice mock.
I like Obi Melifonwu – has some Earl Thomas likeness.
And by far he’s not the best one coming out – lot of good safeties this year. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Pat’s pick another this year.
Wish we had that pick back that was spent on Jordan Richards….
How would you rank the safeties this year top 10
Good job Mike! Wormley is not a great pass rusher, but handles containment, gap control and tackling, and stays on his feet avoiding the wash. He reminds me a little of Richard Seymore, tho as you point out maybe better at DT . College stats has him at 303 lbs running a 4.96 40 yd. so will see what the combine brings for time. Wormley has 10 3/8″ hands, 33 1/4″ arms and 82 3/4″ wingspan at 6’5 1/2″.
I think he’s available to the Patriots at #64. Wormley also has blocked field goals (3) and extra points (1) on special teams, in his career. He is also a senior.
I think if the Patriots were still playing their traditional 3-4 defense from several years back, Wormley would be a fantastic 5-tech DE. With the Defense they run now, I see Wormley in a rotation or in a smaller “NASCAR” type package. I would feel better taking him a little later than 64, but I could see him coming in and having a role right away.